AMD's Radeon HD 5870: Bringing About the Next Generation Of GPUs
by Ryan Smith on September 23, 2009 9:00 AM EST- Posted in
- GPUs
Meet the Rest of the Evergreen Family
Somewhere on the way to Cypress, AMD’s small die strategy got slightly off-track.
AMD’s small-die strategy for RV770
Cypress is 334mm2, compared to 260mm2 for RV770. In that space they can pack 2.15 billion transistors, versus 956 million on the RV770, and come out at a load power of 188W versus 160W on the RV770. AMD called 256mm2 their sweet spot for the small die strategy, and Cypress missed that sweet spot.
The cost of missing the sweet spot is that by missing the size, they’re missing the price. The Cypress cards are $379 and $259, compared to $299 and $199 that the original small die strategy dictated. This has resulted in a hole in the Evergreen family, which is why we’re going to see one more member than usual.
As Cypress is the base chip, there are 4 designs and 3 different chips that will be derived from it. Above Cypress is Hemlock, which will be the requisite X2 part using a pair of Cypress cores. Hemlock is going to be interesting to watch not just for its performance, but because by missing their sweet spot, AMD is running a bit hot. A literal pair of 5870s is 376W, which is well over the 300W limit of a 6-pin + 8-pin power configuration. AMD saves some power in a single card (which is how they got the 4870 under the limit) but it likely won’t be enough. We’ll be keeping an eye on this matter to see what AMD ends up doing to get Hemlock out the door at the right power load. As scheduled we should see Hemlock before the end of the year, although given the supply problems for Cypress that we mentioned earlier, it’s going to be close.
The “new” member of the Evergreen family is Juniper, a part born out of the fact that Cypress was too big. Juniper is the part that’s going to let AMD compete in the <$200 category that the 4850 was launched in. It’s going to be a cut-down version of Cypress, and we know from AMD’s simulation testing that it’s going to be a 14 SIMD part. We would wager that it’s going to lose some ROPs too. As AMD does not believe they’re particularly bandwidth limited at this time with GDDR5, we wouldn’t be surprised to see a smaller bus too (perhaps 192bit?). Juniper based cards are expected in the November timeframe.
Finally at the bottom we have Redwood and Cedar, the Evergreen family’s compliments to RV710 and RV730. These will be the low-end parts derived from Cypress, and will launch in Q1 of 2010. All told, AMD will be launching 4 chips in less than 6 months, giving them a top-to-bottom range of DX11 parts. The launch of 4 chips in such a short time frame is something their engineering staff is very proud of.
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erple2 - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link
I think that you're missing the point. AMD appeared to want the part to be small enough to maximize the number of gpu's generated per wafer. They had their own internal idea of how to get a good yield from the 40nm wafers.It appears to be similar to their line of thinking with the 4870 launch (see http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3469">http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3469 for more information) - they didn't feel like they needed to get the biggest, fastest, most power hungry part to compete well. It turns out that with the 5870, they have that, at least until we see what Nvidia comes out with the G300.
It turns out that performance really isn't all people care about - otherwise nobody would run anything other than dual GTX285's in SLI. People care about performance __at a particular price point__. ATI is trying to grab that particular sweet spot - be able to take the performance crown for a particular price range. They would probably be able to make a gargantuan low-yield, high power monster that would decimate everything currently available (crossfire/SLI or single), but that chip would be massively expensive to produce, and surprisingly, be a poor Return on Investment.
So the comment that Cypress is "too big" I think really is apropos. I think that AMD would have been able to launch the 5870 at the $299 price point of the 4870 only if the die had been significantly smaller (around the same size as the 4870). THAT would have been an amazing bang-for-buck card, I believe.
Doormat - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link
[Big Chart] and suchfaxon - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link
page 15 is missing its charts guys! look at it, how did that happen lmaoGary Key - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link
Ryan is updating the page now. He should be finished up shortly. We had a lot of images that needed to be displayed in a different manner at the last minute.Totally - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link
the images are missingdguy6789 - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link
You very clearly fail to mention that the cheapest GTX295 one can buy is nearly $100 more expensive than the HD 5870.Ryan Smith - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link
In my own defense, when I wrote that paragraph Newegg's cheapest brand-new GTX 295 was only $409. They've been playing price games...SiliconDoc - Friday, September 25, 2009 - link
That "price game" is because the 5870 is rather DISAPPOINTING when compared to the GTX295.I guess that means ATI "blew the competition" this time, huh, and NVidia is going to get more money for their better GTX295.
LOL
That's a *scowl* "new egg price game" for red fans.
Thanks ATI for making NVidia more money !
strikeback03 - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link
lol, did they drop the price while they had 5870s in stock, then raise it again once they were gone?SiliconDoc - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link
Oh, so sorry, 1:46pm, NO 5870's available at the egg...I guess they sold 1 powercolor and one asus...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Sub...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi...1&na...
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Come on anandtech workers, you can say it "PAPER LUANCH !"