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  • SaturnusDK - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link

    Too little, too late.
    But it is nice to see that the pressure of being 2nd best is moving Intel along.
  • Dizoja86 - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link

    I hope that was just a poor attempt at humour.
  • sgeocla - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link

    You can only do so much with monolithic dies and 14nm refreshes.
    Every 2 cores added massively decrease yields, binning potential and increase prices.
    Looks like Intel has at least learn a lesson and the case is black so you can't see the insides.
  • imaheadcase - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link

    None of that matters considering all the leg room they have to play with though. Its not like AMD is magically going to steal market share with one release. Intel users are not simply going to toss motherboard/ram out just to switch to AMD. Its cost prohibitive to do that. A few hundreds bucks difference in a CPU is still a big investment to move to another eco system.
  • Irata - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link

    If you have a good enough PC, there is no reason to throw it away just to get something slightly faster for your use case.

    At some point, however, you will need to replace your system, either because it has become too slow for your use case, something breaks, it does not support new peripherals....

    In the server space, this may be different - if you can suddenly get the same or better performance for considerably lower power use (which also translates into lower cooling costs), replacing your existing hw could very well be worth it.
  • sgeocla - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link

    Most people think AMD has been knocking Intel's HEDT platforms & prices back to earth with 12nm air cooled Threadripper vs 14nm++ water cooled Intel.
    Next 7nm Threadripper will have 2x AVX performance, 50% to 100% higher number of cores, 40% lower power consumption, no NUMA bugs, PCIE4 with plenty of lanes.
    While Intel can only make 28 core dies with 10% yield, AMD can make 32, 48, 64 core CPUs with 70% yield.
  • Karmena - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link

    You have to toss the mobo out with CPU upgrade on Intel. At least you usually had to.
  • futrtrubl - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link

    You quite often have to toss the motherboard on an upgrade anyway, or get new features from new ones. Both AMD and Intel use the same RAM for equivalent generations, so if you had to toss RAM to change companies you would have to toss RAM to upgrade within the ecosystem.
  • 0ldman79 - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link

    You have to toss the mobo on an Intel setup.

    I've had AMD systems run at least four generations of CPU on a single board, Athlon x2, Athlon II, Phenom and Phenom II. Couldn't quite get DDR3 into that damn DDR2 slot though...
  • sorten - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link

    "Intel users are not simply going to toss motherboard/ram out just to switch to AMD"

    I'm not going to toss it out. I'm planning to give it to my brother. Reduce-Reuse-Recycle. :)
  • rtho782 - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link

    I mean, both platforms use the same RAM and if you want to change your intel CPU you need a new motherboard anyway, they make sure of that with practically every release.
  • inighthawki - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link

    I'm actually going to be upgrading my PC soon. Had you asked me a year or two ago I wouldn't have even considered AMD as an option for a high end gaming PC, but the 3800X and 3900X look really compelling and are likely to be the CPU of choice for my next system. I have no doubt in my mind that many others feel the same way and AMD is almost certainly going to gain some marketshare from new system builders.
  • Frank_M - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link

    The reason some of us may be forced to continue using Intel processors is software support.
    If you need 12 or more cores, you are probably doing mathematical optimization, video rendering, or audio recording/mixing. The software you are using was probably written using the Intel C++ compiler and is optimized for Intel hardware.To quote Mr. Ballmer, "Developers, Developers, Developers...." Also, moving data is just as important as processing data so support for thunderbolt 3 and Optane is a must on any new system. I do like that many of the new AMD boards have PCIe 4.
  • 0ldman79 - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link

    The flip side of that is that aside from AVX support lagging on AMD, the differences are minimal. AMD has more execution units, more of them will be idle on Intel optimized software, you'll have more CPU left for other tasks.

    That being said, AMD needs to get people optimizing for the Zen architecture, there's seriously 10-20% performance left on the table due to the differences in x-Lake and Zen architectures. *IF* the code was optimized then AMD would have had the IPC advantage on Zen 1. Historically though, this has been their weak spot. The entire Bulldozer architecture wasn't terrible, it just wasn't optimized for *ever*.

    AMD has been like an Olympic level runner being forced to swim competitively. Until that changes they're always going to be struggling on some level.
  • ajc9988 - Wednesday, May 29, 2019 - link

    You may have missed it, but the X570 boards from some manufacturers DO HAVE thunderbolt 3. Also, you can use Optane drives on AMD boards, just not for the OS. For content creation, you need it for massive files for 8K renders, sure. The low QD on them are great. But, are you suggesting that people NEED Optane memory? I'm very confused by that statement.

    Sure, the rest is reasonable *to a degree,* but AMD is working with developers. Also, with the huge IPC increase, the centralizing of the IMC with the I/O to prevent the NUMA situation, the changes to Infinity Fabric, the inclusion of PCIe 4 (which will help with BOTH networking and storage in a significant way, if your infrastructure supports the higher networking speeds that is).

    Another point on Optane, it seems absurd to not wait for reviews of the PCIe 4.0 drives, see if Samsung uses Z-NAND on PCIe 4, or to see what comes out of Micron after the deal with Intel over Crosspoint.

    @0ldman79 - AVX is used in about 5% of workloads, at least for AI a year or two ago. When you need it, you NEED IT! But, it isn't as ubiquitous as people think.

    With changes to Zen 2, by widening the chips, AVX2 will be vastly improved, while there is a chance, but no confirmation, of being able to run some AVX512. That is rumor, not confirmed, on AVX512, though.
  • HStewart - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link

    I guess you don't realize this is just the beginning of new architexture 2019 is almost half over with and desktop market is minimal market place compare to lap top. Most of this is on ICE Lake U which is at lower range - but 28Watt version have also been planned and curious what performance they are.
  • Korguz - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link

    i guess you havent seen the news on Zen 2 :-) looks to be VERY competitive with intel, and cost must less, i wonder what it will do when AMD moves it to mobile...

    oh BTW.. you STILL dont know how to spell architecture CORRECTLY???? wow
  • Xyler94 - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link

    know what's more lucrative than laptops? Servers.

    Does Intel still hold a dominance in that sector? Absolutely, but AMD is gaining lots of ground because of Zen and Zen2. Once IceLake releases in a Server/Desktop form factor, then you may compare how amazing it is against Zen 2. But until then, all we saw really from Intel was Graphics performance with Gen11. Which is awesome, good on Intel for that... but if Zen2 attacks the laptop market, and proves to be better value all around, I wonder how long Intel will hold it's market lead there too?
  • ajc9988 - Wednesday, May 29, 2019 - link

    I disagree with comparing Ice Lake to Zen 2 on servers. By the time it arrives, there will be Zen 3 on 7nm+ or 6nm TSMC.
  • Gachigasm - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link

    looks like ryzen 3950x will arrive this year ;)
  • Kevin G - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link

    Cascade Lake on the Xeon side of things is more of a refresh than any real upgrade. Mainly errata (which fixes Optane DIMM support) and security fixes over Sky Lake-SP. Only thing really new are the VNNI instructions.

    For the CoreX lineup, what I see Intel doing is moving LGA 3647 into the main stream or launching a new socket altogether for the high end desktop. The additional memory bandwidth will be the main source of IPC increases when core counts and clocks are normalized.

    Next-gen Xeons are expected just after the new Core X chips with Cooper Lake which are rumored to introduce a new socket with 8 channel DDR4 support and more PCIe lanes to counter AMD. Ice Lake-SP is expected a few quarters after Cooper Lake. It is an open question which of these will make it down to the high end desktop market and in what form (yet another new socket?).
  • marsdeat - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link

    Erm... Tell me my eyes are deceiving me and that they're NOT bringing back the i5-X again...
  • shabby - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link

    Can't wait for the 100mhz speed increase!
  • Beaver M. - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link

    Yeah...
    Thats one of the biggest issues with their >8 core CPUs. They need to run as fast as their CPUs that only have 4 or 8 cores. In ranges like that nobody cares about power draw anyway.
  • zsero - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link

    That's not an Acer BOXX but a BOXX APEXX.
  • TEAMSWITCHER - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link

    I woke up at 1:30AM EST to follow AnandTech's coverage of the Intel presentation. The X-Series fall announcement was depressing. I've been "limping" along with my Haswell-E system (5930K) hoping for a Summer Launch - as Skylake-X did in 2017.

    As a software developer who builds semi-large projects, I'm in dire need of multi-threading improvement. Waiting until fall would be painful, but spending $2000 (CPU, MOBO, RAM) on a two year old platform isn't appealing either. Yes, I know I screwed up and waited too long...

    There were no details in the presentation. Do you think the Cascade Lake-X improvements (core counts, Speed bins, and possible side-channel mitigation) be worth the suffering?
  • mooninite - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link

    Buy a Ryzen 7 or Threadripper. Stop relying on Intel.

    1) Intel's security flaws should be stopping you from considering any future Intel equipment.
    2) Intel's prices should make you reconsider -- you even state you have a limit.
    3) AMD has faster, cheaper, more secure options.
  • TEAMSWITCHER - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link

    I'm really looking for someone with inside information on Cascade Lake - X. I'm not going to build an AMD system - sorry. It's not a fan boy thing... I had a bad experience with the last AMD system I built. I'm never doing that again.
  • Beaver M. - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link

    Same here. The issue is really not the speed of AMD things, but the software support. Too many issues, so bad it even affects the stability.
  • Oxford Guy - Wednesday, May 29, 2019 - link

    "The issue is really not the speed of AMD things, but the software support. Too many issues, so bad it even affects the stability."

    Citation needed.
  • Beaver M. - Wednesday, May 29, 2019 - link

    Decades of experience.
  • Oxford Guy - Wednesday, May 29, 2019 - link

    "I had a bad experience with the last AMD system I built. I'm never doing that again."

    I had a bad experience at a restaurant so I'm never going to eat again.
  • TEAMSWITCHER - Wednesday, May 29, 2019 - link

    Your analogy is close but you kinda whiffed it.... I don't have to forgo eating altogether, I just need to avoid that AMD restaurant that served me some under-cooked food.
  • Xyler94 - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link

    for 500$, July 7th will see the launch of Ryzen 9 3900x, which was shown on stage to beat a Skylake-X of the same core count, for more than half the cost. I'd say look into that, or wait until Threadripper 3 pops up again.

    But if you're that strung on Intel, then... I don't know, wait until a processor comes out which appeals to you?
  • sorten - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link

    If you're think about buying a new computer to help compile times on a project, maybe it's time to break up the massive monolithic application. Or is it the dev tools?
  • Gmn17 - Wednesday, May 29, 2019 - link

    What number scheme fo CL-X?
  • Jorja149 - Tuesday, June 18, 2019 - link

    This leak refers to these new chips as LGA 2066 parts, which would put them in the same league as Intel's new Basin Falls Refresh processors https://prepaidgiftbalance.me/

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