NVIDIA 780i: Evolution Plus Triple SLI
by Wesley Fink on December 17, 2007 9:00 AM EST- Posted in
- CPUs
Final Words
When we first saw the 780i chipset in late October it was clear that the new chipset was basically the same 680i two chip micro-architecture with an added nForce 200 chip to provide two x16 PCIe 2.0 compliant graphics slots. 680i already supports 1333FSB bus and DDR2-1200, so this wasn't new. However, there were several intriguing new features such as support for the new 45nm Penryn chips from Intel, 3-way SLI to boost gaming performance using three NVIDIA graphics cards, and the introduction of ESA to give enthusiasts the ability to custom control all the major components of their system. These interesting features provided a bit of justification for the upgrade to 780i.
Then NVIDIA delayed the 700i series for about six weeks as rumors flew that Penryn would not work properly with 780i, at least in the quad-core flavor. The talk was that NVIDIA was respinning the chipset to fix compatibility issues. NVIDIA now tells us that the issue was a change in the final release of Penryn that required a rework of some of the board circuitry. The chipsets themselves, both 780i and 680i, are said to be perfectly capable of supporting Penryn if used on a modified board. It now appears a complete fix cannot be made with just a BIOS update for 680i; it is possible a BIOS update will allow dual-core Wolfdale to work as it should, but not quad-core Yorkfield. We will leave the official word for this with NVIDIA and their board partners.
At any rate, somewhere along the way to the fix for Penryn, the new features of 780i became not so exclusive. First, NVIDIA now tells us that 680i can also support Penryn on a reworked motherboard if the manufacturer chooses to implement it. We also hear that most manufacturers are choosing to move to 780i for their Penryn support, although a few manufactures will release an updated 680i board that will fully support Penryn flavors. Last Thursday 3-way SLI launched (but not 780i), and we learned that 680i could also support 3-way SLI. This support is via two x16 slots and an x8 slot, and none of the slots are PCIe 2.0, but Triple SLI will still run on 680i. Strike down another feature we thought was exclusive to 780i. Finally, in the last few days we learned that ESA, NVIDIA's interesting new Enthusiast System Architecture control standard, would also work on the 680i chipset. At this point, we are left to ask what then is truly unique about 780i.
The answer appears to be three x16 PCIe slots instead of x16, x16, x8 with two of the slots (but not all three) being PCIe 2.0 compliant. This seems to be a tremendously small advantage, even for a chipset that is clearly more evolutionary than revolutionary. Our own tests confirm what NVIDIA has already told us, and that is that performance of the 780i under the same test conditions is the same as the 680i chipset. There is, however, one big advantage for 780i. You can be sure, with 780i, that your motherboard will support Penryn. While the 680i might support Wolfdale with a BIOS update, you will need a new board to run Yorkfield. If you are going to have to buy a new NVIDIA board, you might as well buy the 780i.
Again, we are taking a closer look at 3-way SLI on the 780i so look for our test results on whether the 3-Way performance with three x16 slots will make a difference for you later today. You will also see a review shortly that will examine the overclocking capabilities of the 780i. We are still excited about ESA, and we are hard at work on a review of an ESA system with a selection of current ESA certified components. We are interested to see what real impact the ability to control peripherals other than the motherboard will have on system performance.
To be blunt, there is almost nothing new about 780i. It now turns out 680i does all the same tricks except supporting three x16 PCIe slots (680i supports x16, x16, x8) with two being PCIe 2.0 compliant. However, you do get assurance with 780i that you are getting a new NVIDIA motherboard certified by Intel to support Penryn (Wolfdale and Yorkfield). You do not get that assurance when you purchase a current 680i chipset motherboard.
We like the new features from NVIDIA that we first saw in late October with 780i. The fact that virtually all of these new features also run on 680i just means that they are not exclusive, which is good news for current 680i owners. Whether 3-way SLI on three x16 PCIe slots, ESA control, or Penryn compatibility are features you want is something individuals will need to examine for how they fit their vision of a great computer system.
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Dogbyte13 - Monday, January 7, 2008 - link
how come no 16x16 on the 750i? will there be a performance hit with 16x8?edborden - Sunday, December 30, 2007 - link
"The chipsets themselves, both 780i and 680i, are said to be perfectly capable of supporting Penryn if used on a modified board. It now appears a complete fix cannot be made with just a BIOS update for 680i; it is possible a BIOS update will allow dual-core Wolfdale to work as it should, but not quad-core Yorkfield. We will leave the official word for this with NVIDIA and their board partners."I just contacted my engineer at nVidia. He says:
"We will be releasing a BIOS to support the Penryn Wolfdale's in the
coming month, but there is no plan to support the Yorkfield quad-cores
on NF680i."
- Ed Borden, edborden.blogspot.com
edborden - Sunday, December 30, 2007 - link
nVidia had a bunch of new technologies to debut, and they wanted to do it all at the same time, with a new platform launch. Accomplishing the tech refresh on what is essentially the same chipset technology isn't necessarily a fact that has to make it non-event.I'm happy it's here - we had some significant issues with the 680i chipset and I'm hoping a re-work, some new features, and the psychological effect of a new model will help with.
Also, the XFX and eVGA partner boards (both identical, manufactured by nVidia) look ALOT better than their 680i predecessors. Better cooling, especially.
I blogged recently about us implementing these chipsets in our systems at http://edborden.blogspot.com/2007/12/nvidia-triple...">http://edborden.blogspot.com/2007/12/nvidia-triple...
kevinkreiser - Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - link
anyone know if the 780i might remedy the "display stopped responding" bug people like me are having? if so, it would be worth the upgrade.Fallen Kell - Wednesday, December 19, 2007 - link
I stopped having that problem when I changed what drivers I was using. However, since either the CPU or the motherboard is dead (don't know which because the Gigabyte board does not have a BIOS CPU test (i.e. no beep code for bad CPU), I can't tell for sure what is dead, and since I don't have another 775 CPU or 775 socket motherboard....)Anyway, I started getting the problem in August/September when I updated my drivers, but when I reverted back to previous drivers, the issue went away.
Fallen Kell - Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - link
Without support for 1600 FSB anyone who buys this is just plain stupid. Nvidia has basically released a "fixed" 680i motherboard, and in reality people like myself who purchased the original 680i and did so because they were told, "Quad CPU, 1333 FSB, Penryn Support" should all be receiving these "fixed" boards for free... Without 1600 FSB support, you will not be able to use CPU's that arrive in 3 WEEKS! If it was 3 months, maybe a different story, but 3 WEEKS!!!!! Again, anyone who buys this is an idiot and a fool.aka1nas - Wednesday, December 19, 2007 - link
You'll only be unable to run a single Extreme Edition Quad-core part without OC'ing the FSB. Regular Penryns will not be released at 1600FSB.ShantanuMalpani - Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - link
While you have conducted a test with a single 8800 GTX, im surprised that you didnt conduct a test with two of them in SLI. with both the PCIE interconnects coming from a single bridge chip, and a rumour that they allow direct communication between them using the bridge chip(like first seen on RD580), there could be an improvement in SLI performance.Alternatively the added latency of going from the northbridge to the bridge chip might cause a decrease in performance.
Also i assume that the NF200 bridge chip will be the one used in Skulltrail?
chizow - Monday, December 17, 2007 - link
Will be somewhat interested to see the OC'ing and Triple SLI results tomorrow but overall this seems a disappointing release.Honestly, it looks as if Penryn/700i is actually going to be worst for the enthusiast unless NV managed to also work out their FSB problems. If these boards can't hit higher FSB speeds than the 600-series, the higher stock FSB on Penryn (read: lower multipliers, locked upwards) will only make it harder to OC.
Also was interesting about the layout and routing of the PCI-E lanes. I must have missed the PCI-E course for dummies but it seems like this board just totally shatters the previous NB/SB model as one of the SLI cards is being routed through the SB (MCP) and 2 through an "auxiliary" (n200) chip? Will be interesting to see how this impacts performance as I was under the impression that the lanes/traces from memory controller to GPU/RAM/CPU were the main bottlenecks in current PCs and this configuration just seems to add more of them.
Frumious1 - Monday, December 17, 2007 - link
I'm not sure if the article is "meh" or it it's the boards/chipsets. I'd have liked overclocking and additional performance results, and 3Dmark as a show of performance doesn't mean much outside of the ORB weenies. How about some actual games, and how about testing SLI with a couple of 8800GT cards to see if there are any tangible benefits to PCIe 2.0? I don't really expect much, but all we got was a "this is just 680i with a new chip on the board so we're not really doing much additional testing."I don't give a rip about Tri-SLI, but Penryn support and some actual testing of whether the new PCIe specification makes a difference would have been appreciated. Maybe we can get a follow-up article that's more of a real review instead of a quick chipset overview with some motherboard pictures thrown in at the end?