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  • XabanakFanatik - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    Seriously? We get this instead of the 970 Pro or 905p review? Did anyone actually care about this drive?
  • Billy Tallis - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    Personally, I find doing a review like this to be a lot more interesting than testing an overpriced flagship product where I know going into it that the conclusion will be that a drive 1/2 or 2/3 the price is just as good for realistic use cases. It's interesting to explore the current state of the art for high-end tech, but it's more interesting to explore new tech in the context of something that might also be a sane purchase.
  • XabanakFanatik - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    I'm not sure how interest explains why you've reviewed this two days after it shipped but 7 weeks after you posted the 970 Evo review, there is no 970 pro review. Every other inferior review website posted the pro and evo reviews simultaneously, so Samsung must have sent you both drives around the same time.

    And Seriously, this is more interesting than reviewing the first optane refresh 905p?
  • close - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    They're usually very late with most reviews. Except Intel ones.

    Ostensibly because they want to provide the best information out there.
  • Samus - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    Need a review of a 970 Pro? Read the 970 Evo review and assume it’s moar better for proportionately moar money.
  • bananaforscale - Monday, July 9, 2018 - link

    Not proportionately. Flagship products *never* have a price that's proportional to performance.
  • artifex - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    You already know a bazillion other sources for a 970 Evo review, so you're beating this guy up for being different? He says doing this review is more interesting for him, so no wonder he did it.

    Also, since you're calling Anandtech an inferior review site, he's hardly likely to change just for you, now.
  • XabanakFanatik - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    I was saying every other review site was inferior, yet they posted 970 PRO reviews the same time as 970 EVO reviews. My issue with Anandtech was the sole posting of the 970 EVO review and no 970 PRO review now for over 7 weeks.

    Nobody tests like Anandtech. I'm sad that the halo drives aren't a priority for Billy, since the market for them is actually really big.
  • lmcd - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    Most people I know look at the 970 EVO as the highest price drive they'll consider. I almost didn't even consider it.
  • XabanakFanatik - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    I can think of a half dozen people I know that would have never considered the 900 Pro drive at the previous price point that bought one after Samsung's mysterious price drop at launch of the 970 series. Lopping off 20-25% of MSRP tends to work pretty well to sell a new generation that was previously priced too high.
  • Samus - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    I didn’t consider it either. The WD Black hit the sweet spot for me, picked the 512GB up on sale for $150...
  • Ryan Smith - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    "My issue with Anandtech was the sole posting of the 970 EVO review and no 970 PRO review now for over 7 weeks."

    On the hardware side of matters, Samsung sampled us the 970 EVO at launch. They did not sample us the 970 PRO at that time. So that greatly impacts what gets reviewed and when.
  • XabanakFanatik - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    I'm very confused at why Samsung would have sampled several other review sites with both drives (obvious by the reviews of both being posted together before launch) but have skipped on sampling Anandtech at the same time.

    Maybe it was a mistake? Maybe it was intentional? Maybe the 970 Pro would not have shined as well in the thorough testing you do here?

    In any case, I need to apologize. Sorry, Billy, for jumping you about it. Thanks for an answer.
  • Ryan Smith - Friday, June 15, 2018 - link

    Samsung essentially does random sampling. We got the EVO at two capacities instead of an EVO and a PRO.
  • melgross - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    Well, maybe that answers your question. If those other sites are inferior, then why would you care that they came out with early reviews?

    The truth is that these drives will provide more than enough performance for most people, and that includes most people here, if they’re willing to admit it.
  • CheapSushi - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    Why are you so cranky? Seriously. Eat a snickers.
  • gglaw - Wednesday, June 20, 2018 - link

    He had a completely legitimate request/concern. If historically AT and other big sites typically review the top 2 models of any given release at a time like previous generation EVO/EVO Pro, GTX 1070/1080, etc., and HE has an interest in the product even if he's part of the <5% who cares, a thorough review would still be very significant for a semi expensive purchase. Most of us have 0 intention of buying the vast, vast majority of the reviews we read - we just like to know how new products are performing. Just like Billy and many of us here, the Toshiba drive is interesting but very few of us have any intention of buying it.

    Flagship products may only interest a very small percentage of the general public, but a much higher percentage of techies who follow hardware sites and even engage in the forums and comments. Most of us hardware enthusiasts buy plenty of things with almost no practical value. Anything beyong the AT light SSD testing is completely irrelevant to most home users yet we still care about the destroyer and heavy tests. I have the 850, 850 pro, 960 evo, 960 pro, and the cheapest per GB drive ever released (The Micron 3D TLC 2TB drive that goes on sale for $270 range every other week and barely above $200 with the father's day ebay coupon). My LAN room has all these drives running almost side by side and sadly no one including myself can even tell which drive is in which gaming station. Yet, I have no issues with paying 400% more per GB on one drive vs another that I literally can't tell the difference in when using the computers. The meaningless but insane numbers I see on CrystalMark somehow gives me some satisfaction.

    Without Ryan clarifying the issue, most of us just assume products are sampled together based on how the reviews have come out in the past. Knowing this was different than their typical review pattern, maybe they should've just clarified it in the intro. Bashing them was unnecessary, but questioning why they would omit a major flagship release is completely valid. Flagship reviews are very interesting whether or not we buy them. They're indicative of many things that trickle down or where a company is in their technological advancement compared to others. Just because there is minimal real world difference between the 850/pro, 960/pro, how do we know they didn't tweak the 970 pro more? If Nvidia's flahship destroy's AMD's but their current midrange products are similar price/performance, there's a good chance the next midrange GTX card will be the midrange king (the 1060 comes out after 1080, the 1160 will come out after the 1180).
  • ptrinh1979 - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    I also find reviews like these to be refreshing. I prefer a variety of product reviews, not *just* the latest, greatest, and sometimes unattainable products. This review was very interesting to me because despite its flaws when the drive is full at lower capacities, its performance to price ratio makes it a contender for casual workloads. What was *really* useful for me was the price comparison chart at the end with the different capacities. I would use charts like that, and then cross reference the performance characteristics when I am recommending drive upgrades for clients who do not always have top dollars to spend, nor justify on an upgrade, yet not content to recommend typical upgrades, or corporate style upgrade recommendations.
  • jabber - Saturday, June 16, 2018 - link

    I like the reviews of the cheaper but still 'decent' gear as it works for my customers who don't want screaming top end stuff but want something better then spinning rust. Decent budget SSD options are important.
  • ChickaBoom4768 - Saturday, June 16, 2018 - link

    Totally agree with you. Such low priced technology has a real potential to disrupt the existing market instead of another $600 Intel/Samsung drive. In this case of course the drive is a sad disappointment but it was a good review.
  • MadAd - Saturday, June 23, 2018 - link

    +1

    Anyone can review a flagship release, this is real tech reporting.
  • Calin - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    Yes, more people care about the low-mid end of the market than about the very high end - the M.2 2242 has multiple advantages (compact, doesn't need a 2.5 or 3.5 inch case location, doesn't need power cable, low power. Plenty of people will pay more for that, if the performance is equivalent (just as plenty of people pay more for pretty lights when the performance is equivalent, or pay more for a quiter component, or ...).
    So, while I'm not interested in M2 drives, thank you for the article :)
  • gnufied - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    Actually I have been looking for a decent 2242 SSD since forever. My thinkpad T450s has a 2242 slot and we have very little options.

    Having said all this, I dunno if this is comptaible with thinkpad's 2242 slot.
  • timecop1818 - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    most likely not, as that slot is probably for USB-based LTE modem or similar device. M.2 spec does provide for USB connectivity on A, B and E keyed cards/sockets.
  • gnufied - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    The 2242 slot defenitely can be used for M.2 SSDs. I am currently using https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B012ASBZEO/ref=o... SSD with my thinkpad and it works.

    Reading through R100 review does not fill me with joy though. This NVMe disk does not even look better than M500.. :(
  • Targon - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    M.2 has different flavors, and depending on the slot and device you plug into it, may use a SATA connection rather than NVMe with the dedicated PCI Express lanes. The 2242 is a measure of width and length, NOT the interface. An obvious way to tell is that if you have two notches on the connector, you are not looking at a NVMe connection, while the single notch will support the PCI Express lanes. At least, that is typically what is going on. With only two PCI Express lanes, without investigating, I suppose the two notches might still give you some NVMe, but I wouldn't be sure about that.
  • Kwarkon - Friday, June 15, 2018 - link

    There are NVME drives with two notches (M+B), but this keying is limited to only 2 PCIe lines.
  • Jorgp2 - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    I already ordered one, I'll try to send you a PM if it works
  • gnufied - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    Nice. thank you. also do a crystal mark or something while you are at it. :-)
  • close - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    Because it's less than half the price so it has a better chance of ending up in a "regular machine" than the 970 Pro. Reviews for halo products are great but what do you think most people will have a $350 SSD or a $150 one?
  • PeachNCream - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    I care. I like seeing what's happening in the rest of the market outside of the highest end hardware since I am more likely to allocate less money to a computer than is required to get top performing parts. Why waste the money on something as unimportant as a computer component when there's a retirement account and a comfortable post-work life to enjoy as soon as humanly possible? Priorities kid, you've got to figure out what matters most in life. Protip: It's not computer parts.
  • chrnochime - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    You!= everyone. So don't ask such silly question as "did anyone care" because of course there are ppl out there that care.
  • smilingcrow - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    970 Pro is mainly for show-offs. If you actually need high end performance there are faster and more cost effective solutions.
  • mr_tawan - Friday, June 15, 2018 - link

    It's probably down the pipe. And if it's not, then you can buy them a review unit.
  • bananaforscale - Monday, July 9, 2018 - link

    Like it or not, low end sells much more than high. Not that a low-end NVMe drive is slow by typical standards.
  • u.of.ipod - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    Billy nice write-up, good to see something a little different. I've read some reviews and am wondering why NVMe is really taking off for lower end drives? From what I can tell even if you compare top of the line NVMe drives against your average SATA SSD, the real world differences are pretty slim for the majority of use cases. Why try to shove NVMe into the low-end market? Is SATA going away? Are many new M.2 slots not compatible with both SATA and NVMe?

    I've really only used SATA M.2 drives thus far and have been happy with the results.
  • MajGenRelativity - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    I'm not sure why, but it could be about standardizing on NVMe. If everything supports NVMe, there don't need to be as many SATA ports, which saves companies some money
  • Midwayman - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    Halo effect and marketing? Is there really any reason a NVMe drive needs to be more expensive? So long as most computers are supporting it now you might as well standardize new drives on the newer interface.
  • bug77 - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    On top of that, NVMe comes with higher power draw. Because PCIe vs SATA.
  • PeachNCream - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    That can be fixed with technological development. For now, SATA is more power-efficient, but as NVMe becomes more popular, market forces will create a demand for higher efficiencies and the problem will be soon enough.
  • bug77 - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    I'm talking about what is, you're talking wishful thinking.
    PCIe is supposed to cater to a lot of devices, it can't change its sleep current just because of one type of devices in particular. Not saying it's impossible, just that it's highly unlikely.
  • PeachNCream - Monday, June 18, 2018 - link

    Since SATA has not been entirely replaced by NVMe yet, there is still time (and lots of it really) for changes. It's simply a matter of a drive identifying itself to the PCIe bus and then making on-the-fly sleep state changes. Yes, that's non-trivial, but far from wishful thinking.
  • Gasaraki88 - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    SATA needs to go away. That is old technology for old drives. NVMe should be the new standard for hard drives, just like SAS was a better protocol than SATA, NVMe has less overhead and is designed for NAND storage.
  • Targon - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    Space, and because people like these super-thin machines. Also, without the extra packaging, it may be less expensive to make a card based SSD compared to a 2.5 inch SSD drive. Smaller=cheaper when it comes to shipping/packaging as well.

    SATA hasn't really had any evolution over the past few years as well, so without something big to hype, SATA isn't a buzz word that attracts buyers. No SATA 4 standard, so they can't say it is the latest and greatest, while card based SSDs have an appeal as seeming to be a newer technology.
  • HStewart - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    One thing I am curious about is what performance do you need for SSD in external USB drive - I have a couple of them. These cheaper drivers are probably good for that purpose
  • timecop1818 - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    Except cheap USB to M.2 adapters ONLY support SATA drives. The review unit is NVMe.
  • Targon - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    USB 3.1 at the minimum if you want an external SSD in my opinion.
  • HStewart - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    The one I am using ( actually two of them ) is WavLink USB 3.1 Gen 2 that actually does 10gbs '

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06Y5XJG8J/ref=o...

    It is not intended be primary storage - but works quite nice for my needs.

    One thing some one should come out with lower cost TB3 drive case - right now they are at premium.
  • peevee - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    I wonder who would possibly buy the 120GB version given that only extra #20 will bring it to useful capacity and performance?
  • Jorgp2 - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    Could you elaborate on how to configure the Host Memory Buffer Size?
  • Mikewind Dale - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    Interesting review. Thanks.

    I'm hoping that smaller, 11" and 13" laptops will start offering M.2 2242 instead of eMMC. I've been wary of purchasing a smaller laptop because I'm afraid that if the NAND ever reaches its lifespan, the laptop will be dead, with no way to replace the storage. An M.2 2242 would solve that problem.
  • PeachNCream - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    Boot options in the BIOS may allow you to select USB or SD as an option in the event that a modern eMMC system suffers from a soldered on drive failure. In that case, it's still possible to boot from an OS and use the computer. In that case, I'd go for some sort of lightweight Linux OS for performance reasons, but even a full distro works okay on USB 3.0 and up. SD is a slower option, but you may not want your OS drive to protrude from the side of the computer. Admittedly, that's a sort of cumbersome solution to keeping a low-budget PC alive when replacement costs aren't usually that high.
  • peevee - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    "but this is only on platforms with properly working PCIe power management, which doesn't include most desktops"

    Billy, could you please elaborate on this?
  • artifex - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    Yeah, I'd also like to hear more about this.
  • Billy Tallis - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    I've never encountered a desktop motherboard that had PCIe ASPM on by default, so at most it's a feature for power users and OEMs that actually care about power management. I've seen numerous motherboards that didn't even have the option of enabling PCIe ASPM, but the trend from more recent products seems to be toward exposing the necessary controls. Among boards that do let you fully enable ASPM, it's still possible for using it to expose bugs with peripherals that breaks things—sometimes the peripheral in question is a SSD. The only way I'm able to get low-power idle measurements out of PCIe SSDs on the current testbed is to tell Linux to ignore what the motherboard firmware says and force PCIe ASPM on, but this doesn't work for everything. Without some pretty sensitive power measurement equipment, it's almost impossible for an ordinary desktop user to know if their PCIe SSD is actually achieving the <10mW idle power that most drives advertise.
  • peevee - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    So by "properly working" you mean "on by default in BIOS"? Or there are actual implementation bugs in some Intel or AMD CPUs or chipsets?
  • Billy Tallis - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    Implementation bugs seem to be primarily a problem with peripheral devices (including peripherals integrated on the motherboard), which is why motherboard manufacturers are often justified in having ASPM off by default or entirely unavailable.
  • AdditionalPylons - Thursday, June 14, 2018 - link

    That's very interesting. And thanks Billy for a nice review! I too appreciate you doing something different. There will unfortunately always be someone angry on the Internet.
  • Kwarkon - Friday, June 15, 2018 - link

    L1.2 is a special PCIe link state that requires hardware CLREQ signal. When L1.2 is active all communication on PCIe is down thus both host and NVME device do not have to listen for data.
    Desktops don't have this signal ( it is grounded), so even if you tell the SSD (NVME admin commands) that L1.2 support is enabled it will still not be able to negotiate it.

    In most cases m.2 NVME require certain PCIe link state to get lowest power for their Power State.
    The PS x are just states that if all conditions are met than the SSD will get its power down to somewhere around stated value.

    You can always check tech specs of the NVME. If in fact low power is supported than the lowest power will be stated as "deep sleep L1.2 " or similar.
  • Death666Angel - Saturday, June 16, 2018 - link

    Prices in Germany do not line up one bit with the last chart. :D The HP EX920 1TB is 335€ and the ADATA SX8200 960GB is 290€. The SBX just has a weird amazon.de reseller who sells the 512GB version for 200€. The 970 Evo 1TB is 330€ and the Intel 760p 1TB is 352€. And for completeness, the WD Black 1TB is 365€. Even when accounting for exchange rates and VAT, the relative prices are nowhere near the US ones. :)
  • belandresw@gmail.com - Monday, July 2, 2018 - link

    The most important feature of an SSD should be tits controller. Because a reliable and durable controller will provide the efficiency of the SSD for the PC.
  • Zim - Friday, July 12, 2019 - link

    Yes, very important to control da tits.

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