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  • TrogdorJW - Monday, April 26, 2004 - link

    Here's something that was missed, I think. When talking about the RAM, they mention the CAS 3.0 vs. CAS 2.5 or whatever. However, they're using a 133 MHz bus (PC2100 RAM).

    Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you have PC3200 RAM with 3-3-3-8 timings, it should run perfectly well at PC2100 speed with 2-2-2-6 or possibly even 2-2-2-5 timings. Why? Well, 3200 is 52.4% more than 2100, and 3 is only 50% more than 2. Right?

    Anyway, back in the good old SDRAM days, I remember picking up some CAS3 "PC150" RAM and running it at CAS2 since I had a 100 MHz bus speed at the time. Funny thing was that PC150 was cheaper than PC100 with CAS2. Seems like that's happening in the DDR market now.
  • newuser12 - Sunday, April 18, 2004 - link

    seems like the 512 mg of ram is a pretty universal idea....

    And I agree with whoever is saying that celerons suck ass. "value" and "celeron"? LOL!
  • Etacovda - Sunday, April 18, 2004 - link

    Not a bad choice - ive made similar systems in the past. For a value system, why not get a 40gig WD SE drive... without filling the system up with wares, im sure that would be enough for most uses ;) i doubt they will be buying 10 new games to put on it as that comes to about the same price as the system.

    Great choice on the mobo, there is only 2 gripes i have with that board - the caps are very close to the socket for aftermarket cooler installs, and for some reason the one i had hated mbm5.

    512 of ram is a good idea - theres a 'value' system, then there is just building the cheapest system you can build... there is a difference :p

  • boomerang - Sunday, April 18, 2004 - link

    While I have admired the styling and pricing of the manufacturers of the cases you are recommending for some time, I would never purchase one. The reason being because of the severe air flow restrictions imposed on the rear case fans.

    I can't imagine how any air could even begin to go through those little tiny holes.

    With quiet systems becoming very much desirable these days, I would like to see some cases that could meet those expectations in your guides.

    The quietest fan becomes noisy when the air has no place to go.





  • ZobarStyl - Sunday, April 18, 2004 - link

    If you are building a value-level rig and a customer "has to have Intel" then you have one seriously dumb customer. I mean, fanboys and the perennial fight aside, the value market has always belonged to AMD and a Celeron is a horrible processor to sell anyone when a comparable speed Athlon XP is actually cheaper. And don't say the PR ratings are off when the XP's have more L1 cache than all of the Celeron's L1 and L2 combined...read any review on any decent tech website and you will never see a Celeron in any section but the "stay away from these processors" part. Point is I could never sell a Celeron-based system to a customer I would feel like I was cheating him.
  • Booty - Sunday, April 18, 2004 - link

    #10 - Celerons are awful CPUs. I wouldn't put one in a system if *Intel* payed *me*... well, maybe then, but anyway... ;)

    512 MB ram should be the minimum put into ANY system these days, period. I don't agree about using a mATX nForce board, just because they haven't seemed very stable to me - maybe I just haven't found the right memory to use with one, but it's not like I used cheap memory. I think in most cases that onboard video causes more problems than it's worth - if they had dedicated video memory built onto the mobo, that'd be one thing, but I'd rather not have it using up system memory.

    I'd also agree that going with one of the Antec cases (SLK1600 or 3700) or something similar would definately be worth it. You're better spending a little more and having a system that's stable and problem-free than going too cheap and running into problems. But hey, the "techs" out there building these cheap systems are keeping me in business, since I'm always having to replace cheap parts with quality ones when they die a year later.
  • artifex - Sunday, April 18, 2004 - link

    Are SFF designs getting close enough in price for consideration in your monthly budget/mid-range system reviews?
  • thebluesgnr - Saturday, April 17, 2004 - link

    I would replace the motherboard with the MSI K7N2 Delta-L or ABIT NF7 2.0. They cost the same as the ASUS and have better quality (nForce2 Ultra 400 and better power solutions). Specially the ABIT has better quality.

    Dual channel doesn't make much difference but it's likely this system will be upgraded in the future with another stick of RAM so getting the nForce2 Ultra 400 for no extra money at all is a no-brainer imho.

    You may also consider a SiS 748 based board. You can get the ASRock K7S8XE for only $51 shipped (newegg.com) or the Gigabyte for only $54. But the ASRock is on-pair with the "-X" series boards from ASUS as far as components quality goes.
  • yanon - Saturday, April 17, 2004 - link

    BTW, most mini-ATX NForce2 400 IGP board do come with a AGP port. So, the user always have the option to a better graphic card.
  • yanon - Saturday, April 17, 2004 - link

    To be a true entry-level machine, it should have an integrated motherboard. Any one of those mini-ATX NForce2 400 IGP board with GF4MX video and Cmedia 6 channel sound should be fine. Granted that this type of motherboard will only have a 3 pci slots, but an entry level does not need all those expension slots because people who will buy this type of machine just want to surf the web, listen to mp3, some word processing, basic digital photo editing, and occassional gaming (mostly online java-based games). My cousin can play MOHAA on such a machine. 512 Mbytes of ram is a must and NEC 2500A 8X DVD+/-RW drive should also be part of this system since DVD burning is rising in popularity as the cost for a 50-pack Ritek 4.7G DVD-R is only $40 on Newegg now. Entry-level computer builder should consider using the $50 silver Enermax (including a 350watt powersupply) since it has that expensive aluminum look and 2 frontal USB jacks plus audio/mic jacks. Another advantage of using this case is that it has lots holes in the lower portion of the front panel. Moving the back fan to the front will provide ample cooling to all the components inside. All buyer should consider spend extra $20 to buy a retail cpu instead of an OEM cpu since retail comes with a heatsink-and-fan and 1 year warranty. Buying a cheap heatsink and fan unit for the oem CPU will cost you at least $10 more and without an 1 year warranty for the CPU.

  • qquizz - Saturday, April 17, 2004 - link

    Try this Intel option for a value system I built for a client:(for those that gotta have Intel and a S/PDIF in out)

    Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-8TRS300M ATI 9100IGP P4 800FSB Skt478 DDR M-ATX Motherbaord (Prescott ready) w/400/533/800FSB, ATA/100, AGP 8X, 4DDR DIMM, 3PCI, USB 2.0, Audio, Video, LAN, S/PDIF (in,out) header.........$83 shipped (Newegg)

    CPU: Intel Celeron 2.4 GHz 400MHz FSB, 128K Cache - Retail..........$72 shipped (Newegg)

    The rest can be the same I guess but I would get NEC 8X Black DVD+RW/-RW Drive, Model ND-2500A for $85 shipped instead of SONY crapola.

    Of course no discrete video card needed with this rig but can be upgraded if one feels the urge. Also support for 3.2C or 3.2E w/ current bios.

  • ZobarStyl - Saturday, April 17, 2004 - link

    Even on a value rig, 512 is a must. As for the graphics card...remember the object of this guide is an entry level system...not a gaming tower.
  • Cygni - Saturday, April 17, 2004 - link

    9000 Pro is a much better choice than a 9200 non-LE for that price point.
  • Pumpkinierre - Saturday, April 17, 2004 - link

    Agreed #1,2,4,6 I'd go for a Duron 1.8 (more cpu speed than the 2000+), 512Meg RAM and low cost 9600. The extra memory is the most costly but would prove beneficial in HDD swapping reduction.


  • TheDigitalDiamond - Saturday, April 17, 2004 - link

    I pretty much have the same to say as #1. Upgrade the video just a tad, use Antecs beautiful little 300Watt PSU included cases. There's a time when you save money, and then there's a time when you stop being a cheap ass..
  • farscape - Saturday, April 17, 2004 - link

    I'd wish you'd consider the Shuttle AN35 ultra - save you a few bucks. Built a number of systems with it - never a prob and OCs like crazy. WDs work fine for me. I try to stay away from the SE cards tho.
  • blckgrffn - Saturday, April 17, 2004 - link

    First off, sorry about the blank post.

    I agree - 512 of RAM is all that I will put into a machine that I build these days. And, there is no reason not simpy opt for the 2500+, because you will have to spend at least $15 for a decent/quiet cooler (speeze falcon rock comes to mind) for the 2000+. So the price difference if only $13, and you get a lot of bang for you buck by going that route. You could pretty much absorb all of those costs by going with an nForce IGP mobo - the graphics are actually pretty good usually and the the biostar is cheaper than your ASUS. Lastly, beige drives with a black case???? Go with the black Samsung combo drive, that is what I would do. But, then again, I would simply buy an Antec case, either there copper of black ones, so to be assured that I have good power and cooling (12 cm fan!). Lastly, I cannot stand WD drives unless they be Raptors. I would opt for the Samsung drives - fluid dynamic bearings (NO WHINING!) and a 3 year warranty.

    That's my opinion!
    Nat
  • blckgrffn - Saturday, April 17, 2004 - link

  • newuser12 - Saturday, April 17, 2004 - link

    I'm pretty sure this has already been noted on another buyer's guide, but:

    I think the alternative for the RAM should be 512 MB, not 256. I have an athlon 1800+, ECS mobo, geforce 4 mx-440 AGP vid card (running at 4x AGP not 8x), a 30 GB 7200 hard drive, and I can still play unreal 2004 on it....probably cause I have 512MB of RAM. its not even high-end RAM, i think its DDR 2100 (or maybe 2700), but it works nicely.
    Anyways, my point was, A little extra RAM can go a long way. It even makes a noticeable difference in windows' performance, at least on my computer (that is, when I'm not on my linux harddrive playing unreal tournament ;) ).
  • DannyOcean - Saturday, April 17, 2004 - link

    You could save $25 by going with an AMD Duron 1.6GHz and still have enough processing power to power anything a value-rig would need to run.

    A 128MB 9600SE goes for only about $10 more then 64MB 9200SE, both use 64-bit memory, and rather or not a value-rig would need such an upgrade is questionable.

    A FoxConn/CasEdge case would likely have a PSU that is the equivilent of poor-quality Allied PSU's. A quality PSU is important even in value-rigs, as it helps keep down on the annoyingly noticable problems caused by poor power supply. An Antec SLK1600 (w/ SL 300W), $58-Shipped, or any AOpen QF50 (w/ FSP ATX-300GU) ATX case, around $50-60-Shipped), would be great cases for a value-rig.
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