Buyer's Guide: High End System - July 2004

by Wesley Fink on 6/30/2004 12:00 PM EST
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  • randomly - Saturday, July 31, 2004 - link

    Part of what I consider essential in a high end system is a fairly Quiet machine. Especially these days with 480W supplies and the power disappation of CPUs and Video cards getting so high fan noise is getting way out of hand. After years of trying to build quiet fan cooled machines I moved to water cooling. Water cooled cases are vastly quieter than any fan based system. I've also found all my water cooled systems (CPU,GPU,Chipset) to be considerably more reliable and stable, especially when overclocked, compared to my fan based systems. I currently use Koolance PC2-601 water cooled cases as they are very quick to set up, have temperature monitoring, temperature variable fan speed, and overtemp alarms (saved me once so far). They are fairly quiet but I think there is room for improvement. Koolance uses 80mm fans on the top of the case. A system with 120mm fans buried inside the case would have a definite sound level advantage. There are also better designed and made cases than the Koolance, the trick is marrying one with a good water cooling kit. I would love to see your recomendations for cases and water cooling kits that would be appropriate for your High end / Overclocked systems. Quiet power supply recommendations that also fit the power and reliability bill would also be great to see.
    Water cooling used to be restricted to the home hobbiest/handyman types, but with the current kits out there from several manufacturers it has become almost as turn key as installing a motherboard, and the benefits are considerable. I think you should seriously look into it for your reviews. Once you've had a quiet PC, you'll never go back.
  • m4trix - Monday, July 26, 2004 - link

    I saw that. definately good to hear.

    What about the OCZ PC3700 EB? I havn't seen that anywhere. either that or I'm blind :O
  • the5thgeek - Monday, July 26, 2004 - link

    Monarch is taking preorders for about $166.
    http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant....
  • the5thgeek - Monday, July 26, 2004 - link

  • m4trix - Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - link

    I finally found the K8N Neo2 mobo

    And after expecting something NEAR the "$170 shipped" price quoted in the article, I was horrified to discover it's almost $400. there goes that dream. ($389.95 before shipping).
    I hope there are some WAY cheaper retailers out there in the near future...

    http://www.atacom.com/program/print_html_new.cgi?c...
  • expletive - Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - link

    I should have said, with the Athlon 64 3500+ and the MSI Nforce 3 board...

    What if i wanted to try and overclock at all?

    John
  • expletive - Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - link

    Will this memory be a working substitute in this high end system? I would hate to waste it...

    https://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?P...

    John
  • phray - Monday, July 19, 2004 - link

    #38 Parc: I emailed MSI a week ago and i was told by Chad Long (chadl@msicomputer.com) that it would be out "late July to beginning of August in the US." Feel free to email him and see if you get any official date.

    I need to upgrade before Quakecon, but this board may not be out in time...
  • Anemone - Saturday, July 17, 2004 - link

    Agree on the 6800U. And as I've commented on the Intel oc article you recently wrote, its quite amusing that well over a dozen sites are all recommending the FX over Intel solutions. Thanks for a great read on what to build :)
  • Parc - Thursday, July 15, 2004 - link

    I have been waiting for this board a while. Msi at first told me it would be out the last week of June or first week of July. The first week of July Msi told me it is done but I do not see it any where. Does anybody have any info on waht the deal with this board is? Where is it at and when will I be able to buy it.
  • kd4yum - Thursday, July 8, 2004 - link

    Well! I guess so!

    regarding comment 28....

    Now wait a minute. Why would RAID 0 cut the MTBF in half? Is this dice we are rolling?
    Probably, the splay of i/o across mult disks would relax the work on the actuator arms.
    'specially if 'elevator queueing' is active.
    And don't forget about reduced fragmentation.
    No, I think you'd get your 100K hours with either RAID 0 or RAID 1. It would just hirt more with RAID 0. my $0.02
  • kd4yum - Thursday, July 8, 2004 - link

    Let's see. Do I still have a valid uname and passwd? uhhh
  • the5thgeek - Wednesday, July 7, 2004 - link

    Ok my bad, it is not on the U.S. version of the msi web site. thanks!
  • Wesley Fink - Wednesday, July 7, 2004 - link

    #32 -The board is definitely on MSI's web bite at http://www.msi.com.tw/program/support/download/dld...

    It even has BIOS and drivers posted. MSI assured us the board would be available beginning last week, so it should be available very soon.

    #33 - There will be an Overclocking Guide later this month. With all of the massive changes in Sockets, Chipsets, and Hardware, we decided to delay the overclocking guide until the new hardware was released and could be tested.
  • lazerasa - Tuesday, July 6, 2004 - link

    what happened to the overclock system buyers guide? there hasn't been one in 3 months...?
  • the5thgeek - Tuesday, July 6, 2004 - link

    Why are you recomending a motherboard that does not exist? (at least for us poor mortals that must deal in the real world[that board is not even on MSI's web site, much less available retail])
  • warath - Sunday, July 4, 2004 - link

    I find it funny that in one article you recommend RAID-0, and in another, you say NOT EVEN Close to worth it :P :) Make up your minds Anandtech!
  • TrogdorJW - Thursday, July 1, 2004 - link

    Regarding RAID 0, it really isn't as "useless" as the other article portrays, depending on what you do with it. If you only play games and surf the web, then it certainly isn't that big of a deal. If you routinely copy files around on your hard drive (i.e. either compressing or extracting from archives), or in compiling code, there is a somewhat noticeable improvement in speed. There is also a definite improvement in performance when multitasking with a hard-drive intense operation running in the background. For example, try copying a file from one drive to another drive while surfing the web with and without RAID 0. It's something I do periodically, and I definitely notice an improvement. Video editing definitely benefits from the added hard drive performance.

    Maybe it's not worth the extra cost, but I really don't like dealing with three hard drive letters much. I have one drive setup as my C: drive, and then two drives striped as drive D:. So I have a 320 GB D: partition and a 120 GB C: partition. The cost of the D: partition was about $230 - only slightly more than a single 74 GB Raptor. Of course, I don't store any critical files on the RAID 0 array - it's all stuff that I would only be moderately irritated at having to reinstall.
  • Z80 - Thursday, July 1, 2004 - link

    Regarding the MSI motherboard recommendation:

    "A hardware and software service company from Vermont filed a legal class-action suit against Microstar International accusing one of the leading mainboard makers in the world of intentionally using low-quality components on its mainboards. A report from Reuters claims that the suit, filed in Los Angeles Superior Court last Thursday by Electronic Connection Services Corporation claims that MSI has knowingly used capacitors, devices used to regulate the power supply to microchips, that can leak or even explode and cause mainboards to short-circuit. The suit, which seeks to cover any person or company in the United States who has made a wholesale or retail purchase of an MSI mainboard since 1999, seeks unspecified damages and restitution and other relief."

    I wonder if I can get any money back for those two crappy MSI MB's I got stuck with!

  • qooleot - Thursday, July 1, 2004 - link

    Ya..I was gonna say the same thing...

    In one article today you guys write:

    If you haven't gotten the hint by now, we'll spell it out for you: there is no place, and no need for a RAID-0 array on a desktop computer. The real world performance increases are negligible at best and the reduction in reliability, thanks to a halving of the mean time between failure, makes RAID-0 far from worth it on the desktop.

    And in another article:

    Recommended: Dual Western Digital Raptor 74GB 10,000RPM SATA in RAID 0 Configuration

    I guess you guys haven't gotten the hint by now...
  • Coherence - Thursday, July 1, 2004 - link

    I'm a bit confused with the choice of hard drive setup. In this article, AT uses a RAID-0 setup ("2 x 74GB, 148GB total"), and yet AT follows up with another article that says RAID-0 is a waste of money due to the negligible performance gains and decreased reliability (due to halving the MTBF).

    I'd say future versions of their rig suggestions should just get rid of RAID-0, and suggest RAID-1 setups instead.

    Just a suggestion, Anand may want to coordinate with his team a little better so these kinds of contradictions are avoided.
  • cKGunslinger - Thursday, July 1, 2004 - link


    Is that really the best LCD for gaming? I thought the Dell 2001FP was still the top chioice? Did the Samsung de-throne the Dell when I wasn't looking?
  • mino - Thursday, July 1, 2004 - link

    Just wanted to say taht this is the best giude published so far. Of course except the optical remends. Combo(or Plextor Premium for DAE-> best on the market) + LG 4120 would be preffered.
  • ImJacksAmygdala - Thursday, July 1, 2004 - link

    Wonderful article! I look forward to each and everyone from Anandtech. I usually see what Sharky Extreme has posted, but it always seems cooker cutter when compared to the indepth information Anandtech provides. I plan on building a HTPC around fall time and I plan on following Anandtechs recommendations to the letter. I only wish that Anandtech tech would also include a recommended HDTV in the high end article, $3000 price tag excluded. This way Anandtech gets to play on a 65" screeen and we get solid gaming performance and screen resolution information. HDTV is the future for high end gaming but it is hard to find the quality information such as the kind Anandtech provides. Thanks again for such a great informative article!
  • crimson117 - Thursday, July 1, 2004 - link

    I'd go with a dual-layer DVD burner, and a fast combo CDRW/DVD-ROM. I know dual layer DVD media isn't widely available yet, but those building a high end system won't want to have to go buy a new DVD burner in 3 months because their drive can't do dual-layer.

    Also, how about some real mouse/keyboard recommendations? I know it's more of an individual preference thing, but you could highlight some cool, innovative mice and keyboards. Like a stylish new wireless combo or a fast response time optical mouse. For me, I'm still using a slightly damaged compaq keyboard that I looted from my old job, so I'd love to be convinced that there's a keyboard out there with features I never thought about.
  • BalAtWork - Thursday, July 1, 2004 - link

    The only thing I would change would be the flat monitor choice. What about the Apple new 30" lcd. High resolution and low response time. OF course this wuld push you over 6k ;)
  • Calin - Thursday, July 1, 2004 - link

    I saw once a 20 MB drive - 5.25" and full height, as big as a normal CD-ROM unit, and while working it became as hot as barely touchable.
    The computer industry surely advances in leaps :D

    Calin
  • FishTankX - Thursday, July 1, 2004 - link

    Yup, 148MB of total memory..
  • Spuffin - Thursday, July 1, 2004 - link

    Small suggestion: I would like to have the components individually selectable at the summary. For instance I could pick the alternative harddrives or sound card via drop down menu, and it would automatically update the prices. Just a thought, I'm probably the only one that wants it.
  • TrogdorJW - Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - link

    #13 - both of the graphics cards are going to be very difficult to find, but if you're spending this much money, "settling" for anything less would just be stupid. It might take two more weeks to get the 6800U or X800XT cards, but I think it's a good recommendation to wait rather than buy an X800 Pro or 6800 GT.

    As for performance, it seems to be practically a tie between the two cards, but with the latest drivers, I belive the 6800U might have a slight edge. It certainly has more features than the X800 XT (although whether they're useful or not is a different question). IF (and that's a really big if) I were in the market for a $500+ graphics card, I would personally go with the 6800U over the X800XT (barely). Apparently, Wesley feels about the same.

    Nice system, Wes. Too bad I will never buy it for myself! Unless I win the lottery.....
  • Burbot - Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - link

    I wonder what do authors think about recommending good headphones as an alternate for those who do not want or like speakers? Grado SR125 will fit good enough here, wouldn't it?
  • Neekotin - Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - link

    hey guys, is the Nu-tech drive capable of Dual layer writing? the NEC drive with a firmware upgrade would seem to be a better choice. although i can barely find some DL media. i also agree with #11 another combo drive would be nice, but that would just be splitting hairs. overall i agree with the guide. great job wes!
  • Zebo - Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - link

    Perfect! I would change nothing. :)
  • deathwalker - Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - link

    Certainly a very impressive assembly of parts, although I am surprised at the recommendation of parts that are largely not available. I find the selection of the NU-082 very dissapointing. I bought this burner based on a review/recommendation on AnandTech. I have been nothing short of dissapointed with this product..mostly is poor Media compatibility. Bottom line though this system will be a screamer.
  • Sahrin - Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - link

    Great article, just one comment. I'd like to echo the concerns already expressed re: the choice of a 6800U. When nVidia's own website is seeking PRE-orders for the card, I doubt it is feasible to recommend it for a system when the better performing-for-same-price X800XT is available right now (granted in limited quanities-you can make the argument that it hasn't been truly released, but there are gamers who bought X800XT's that have them-the same can't be said for any GF6 based card). Other than that, though...rock on.
  • bigtoe33 - Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - link

    Only issue i found for me was the creative sound card.While i know they have awesome features etc i know from being a system builder they also cause a lot of issues usually hogging the pci bus etc.For me there are lots of other awesome cards either based on VIA chipsets or Crystal chipsets that are as good with less hogging issues and usually a little cheaper.

    The other sound card choice for hone recording was fine infact pretty awesome and a card i will be looking to buy.

    Thanks for the awesome article.
  • Wesley Fink - Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - link

    #1 - You make a very good point, as I wouldn't personally have a system without 2 opticals for copying, and I also use a high-speed CD writer for Digital Audio Extraction. Perhaps one of the better combo DVD-CDRW drives could be the 2nd drive to combine with the top DVD burner. We'll take a look at this in our next High-End Guide.
  • rjm55 - Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - link

    #6 - While I don't have problems with the recommends in the article, I do agree a high-end system probably deserves an M-Audio Audiophile 24/96 or a Terratec.

    Also, who is doing audio reviews at AnandTech? I don't recall seeing any in a long time, though it looks like Wesley knows something about audio.
  • SDwolverine - Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - link

    Just built very similar system - slight differences: Asus A8V Deluxe (with luckily a working PCI/AGP lock - thanks for the couple of emails Wesley!) & Athlon 64 3500+, OCZ 3500EB (had Corsair 3200XL but could not get to work), 74Gb Raptor, currently using a 9800 Pro, but have the X800 XT ordered ($434@Gateway 3 weeks ago, blah...good price though). Some benchmarks with the 9800 Pro are:

    3DMark01: 22,000
    3DMark03: 6,100
    Sandra Buffered: ~6250/~6150 (running memory 2.5-3-2-8 @ 448)

    Have not maxed out any overclocking yet, but I believe I don't really need to, especially with the X800 XT coming.

    Also, got the Samsung 193P (I'm used to LCDs, so any minor ghosting is not an issue), and it's unbelievable how crisp, bright, etc. it is.

    I'm pretty psyched about the system, the only thing that bums me out is how fast "high end" becomes "mid-range". But I'm sure I'll be able to max out settings at 1280x1024 with AA/AF turned up for quite some time.

    For workstation performance, I often work in Excel files that are 20MB+ with complex stat/modeling calcs - with older systems I get 2-3 second delays when processing sensitivities - none on this system and files pull up as fast as notepad docs. ;-)
  • danidentity - Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - link

    Great article, just wanted to point out a small typo.

    On the "CPU and Motherboard Alternatives" page:

    "The new Intel 925X/915 chipsets and Socket 775 processors were finally launched last week. There are many exciting new features that are available with the new 925X/915 chipsets, but performance is really no faster than the current 975P chipset, especially when combined with a Northwood processor."

    That should say, "...but performance is really no faster than the current 875P chipset..." not 975P.
  • Wesley Fink - Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - link

    #6 - We will likely upgrade the DVD burner in our next guide to one of the new 12X (or 16X?) versions. Since I am still having a hard time finding 8X media or a 12X drive it seemed a little too soon to take the plunge in the guide.

    While I personally think the Audiophile 24/96 is an incredible sound card, and a great card for a home studio, I think it is most useful to a buyer who wants to do some recording on his computer system. It is clearly superior to my ears than either the Creative or lower-priced Revolution as a card for recording. The pro-grade converters made a real difference there.

    My concern was whether most high-end buyers were really first concerned about recording quality, so I decided picking it would be too large a leap of assumption. The Audiophile is also 5.1 which is not a problem in my book, but might be for some. Frankly the Audiophile 24/96 coupled with the Klipsch Pro Media Ultra is an incredible computer listening experience - but you already know that.
  • mcveigh - Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - link

    audigy resamples everything, some people say they notice a difference. some say they don't.

    both cards are great and have ther own pluses and minuses.

    9/10.....how bout a 12x dvd burner....and maybe a better sound card (i'm just playing devils advocate)
    m-audio Audiophile 2496 perhaps?????
  • starmonkey - Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - link

    Enjoyed the article. Good choices. The only one that surprised me was the case; I was expecting you guys to recommend the Lian Li PC-V1000 that everyone seems to be so crazy about these days.
  • RyanVM - Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - link

    The Audigy2 ZS' SnR is just as good (if not a bit better) than the M-Audio Revolution (108dB). It also supports 24/192. Where are the quality advantages of the Revolution?
  • Wesley Fink - Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - link

    #2 - It WAS changed in the last guide after posting, and slipped through again this time. We apologize. The 0 is changed to the correct 1.
  • ir0nw0lf - Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - link

    Nice changes to the guide this time, although suggesting a video card that is harder than hell to currently aquire might be considered by some a bit questionable, but is still a good candidate for this level of system to be sure. But not to be too overly rude, do you guys actually proof read your articles? Yet again (was this way last high end buyers guide as well), you have on page 9, "Those concerned more about data security than ultimate speed can configure the drives as RAID 0, or mirroring." Can you puh-lease change that to RAID 1? It's killing me!
  • GokieKS - Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - link

    Much improved choices over previous weeks. Good job. =)

    That said, still need to nitpick... though the only thing that I would change and isn't a matter of personal taste (as things like choice for a case are) is the DVD burner. Sony's DL drive and Plextor's 12x models are already both available, and though neither are as good a value, but this is the high-end system, and you're still a far ways off from your $5000 limit. It would also be useful to have a seperate DVD-ROM, for on-the-fly copying of discs. (And a good CD-RW for DAE purposes? 3 optical drives may be a bit overboard though. =P)

    Once again, good improvement over previous editions.

    ~KS
  • SameOldJames - Friday, April 2, 2021 - link

    Can't wait to buy this so I can play Half Life 2 at max settings! I already have my 6800 GT on me and now all I need is this! So excited.
  • SameOldJames - Friday, April 2, 2021 - link

    I'm just having a hard time finding some at MSRP....

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