3D TVs and VR are different use cases. A dozen people can watch a 3D display together and it's easier to wear glasses than a whole headset. Having said that, I rolled my own 3D path when writing software rather than requiring driver support.
Still, it looks like whenever a technology isn't "the next smartphone" or has some underwhelming 1st generation software, the tech industry put it on the trash heap. Then they complain they're running out of new ideas... truth is they've not fully exploited the ideas they already had.
Thats how industry always works. They need to make money. If something doesn't sell, then doubling down on it and increasing your investment in the hopes that it'll pick up is rare, because it often ends in even more loss. And 3D at home, be it for gaming or movies, was always plagued with issues, only a select few hardcore fans remain now.
I can see the same argument applying to VR very soon. Not enough unit sales and inconvenient for the average Joe to use. But it's possible there might not *be* another thing as widespread as the PC, internet or smartphone, which means niche product developments with smaller market sizes are the future.
Indeed. And sure, not everything reaches a market of billions. But at the end of the day, a product still must make a profit. And if its niche, yet popular in this niche, and expensive to develop, then it'll have to be a very expensive product.
There is a reason VR headsets haven't gotten a refresh after the initial hype wave. The original Oculus Rift is almost 3 years in retail now, without any concrete news of a replacement. They tried with the Go to market it to more people, but thats it. (Although rumor has it that now we're finally close to a replacement coming soon). The problem of course is that VR was almost ready, but only almost. The visual fidelity was still lacking between blur and SDE, and a refresh would have to make substantial improvements in those areas, or it would fail, since it wouldn't have the hype to drive it like the initial wave of devices did.
main thing that worries me is hitting the fabrication wall. if performance per dollar hits a salemate then vr wont ever have a chance. look for navi as it represents a new way to address the increasing cost of microprocessor production. if next gen consoles do vr well and computer users can have a $200 or less vr smashing gpu then it will take off. it needs to be affordable
The problem with VR is that its been in an almost ready state for decades now. As far back as the 1990s, VR was a dream for tech enthusiasts and there were products, headsets included, that were driven by some crazy full length ISA card weirdness. They never caught on and though we have come a long way, I think we aren't there yet. The underlying technology is still fraught with problems including costs, but price isn't the only limiting factor. It is telling that we haven't seen much more than a few hiccups in the last two plus years about VR technologies and software development is lagging as well to say the least.
Eh? Nvidia's 3D Vision (active, high refresh driven 3D) was co-opted for a much better purpose: the proliferation of 120Hz and higher displays. BFI (ULMB) also gained momentum from this. Nvidia's push for 3D Vision gave rise to something much more tangible than a pair of 60Hz, flickering glasses.
One thing I wonder about the 3D stuff though, are they just canning their own 3DVision products, or also HDMI 3D output to 3D TVs, say for simple movie playback? Worst case people can always go back to Top/Bottom formats, but those lose some resolution, so having proper HDMI 3D support is somewhat useful.
That said, 3D TVs stopped being a thing, I'm not sure anyone still makes a new 3D-enabled TV anymore. But still a lot of them kicking around in peoples homes.
Most TVs & projectors support 3D still. It's actually better than ever considering 4k TVs & fast panels don't lose the resolution or ghost like they used to. Games that supt stereoscopic 3d are easy to convert to VR as well. I'm surprised they haven't tried to push it again considering monitor technology/resolution & GPUs can now provide an immersive experience. Go with a large format TV and now you're competing with VR in some ways.
Whoops. Then it isn't as bad. Still irritating that even Nvidia doesn't support (some of) their mobile GPUs for longer than ~2 years. That used to be Intel's approach. The MX130 was released in Nov 17 so that's about when mobile Kepler (920M) was completely discontinued in new notebooks. Though yes, the bulk of mobile Kepler was replaced by Maxwell in 2015, so for most people it's 4+ years of support. If I didn't mess something up again, that is. Kepler: released in 2012, discontinued in 2017, unsupported in 2020 Fermi: released in mid-2010, discontinued in 2015, unsupported in 2019
3dvision gaming is literally the only thing that keeps me interested in gaming. Community driven fixes/solutions had me happy till now. between 3d migato/Helix and Hayden Flawless WSGF communities... ( active shudder hardware solution is the only reason I choose nvidia over AMD... Though I am sure big data research has no way of revealing how much market share they are actually losing )
I now have to scramble to build a new 3d vision qhd surround 3dvision 2 setup before the end. As an artists looks like my immersive interactive experiences not requiring a heavy HMD will be worlds/environments that I create develop for myself. very sad. very very sad. my whole realtime graphic interest has just changed from a gaming interest to an artistic pursuit. I have two eyes and two ears I have zero interest in listening to music in mono or gaming in 2d like a depth challenged cyclops! A big step backwards for desktop graphics fidelity.
my stereoscopic solution will be sated 100% with heavy low resolution HMD strapped/tethered experiences? Phhphhht!
I have been furious that for the past 10 years there was no non quadro stereoscopic option for creating assets in Maya respecting stereoscopic concerns at all stages of dcc interactivity.
Lightweight glasses ( comparatively ) to refer to stereoscopic integrity when creating is easily the more viable solution compared to strapping a screen to my face.
I heard they're deprecating stereo from sound output too, because kids nowadays only listen to one earbud ;)
Searching around, I found something worrying: one of the people desperately searching for a 3D screen was in the medical field. If this stuff helped people interpret MRI scans and suchlike then that's a big loss.
Seriously thinking about rolling my own solution. Either two identical monitors and mirrors on glasses to converge them, or perhaps getting a silvered reflective screen and trying 2x polarised projectors (I have one already). They have this semi-working at work too. Have modified my software to give a variety of outputs - side-by-side on two screens for example - and even red/blue old-style 3D - for flexibility.
One more reason to go to Linux for older hardware. Unfortunately, given NVIDIA, it might take enough time that it's out of support on Windows to have anywhere near close to full support on Linux . . .
This announcement is somewhat odd to me. They are essentially ending support for all the GK1XX series chips IN MOBILE FORMAT ONLY. There are MANY boards that use the GK1XX chips, the VERY same ones that are in these mobile units, well up the GT/GTX 7XX series, including the GTX Titan. I suspect that newer drivers are going to be abandoning some of the power management techniques that were used in the GK1XX series in the mobile space in favor of increased performance. I also suspect that there will be an announcement of the moving of much of the GT/GTX 7XX line (save for the 745/750/750ti, which were maxwell chips) into legacy status shortly to finish off the Kepler line completely.
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stephenbrooks - Friday, March 8, 2019 - link
3D TVs and VR are different use cases. A dozen people can watch a 3D display together and it's easier to wear glasses than a whole headset. Having said that, I rolled my own 3D path when writing software rather than requiring driver support.Still, it looks like whenever a technology isn't "the next smartphone" or has some underwhelming 1st generation software, the tech industry put it on the trash heap. Then they complain they're running out of new ideas... truth is they've not fully exploited the ideas they already had.
nevcairiel - Friday, March 8, 2019 - link
Thats how industry always works. They need to make money. If something doesn't sell, then doubling down on it and increasing your investment in the hopes that it'll pick up is rare, because it often ends in even more loss. And 3D at home, be it for gaming or movies, was always plagued with issues, only a select few hardcore fans remain now.stephenbrooks - Friday, March 8, 2019 - link
I can see the same argument applying to VR very soon. Not enough unit sales and inconvenient for the average Joe to use. But it's possible there might not *be* another thing as widespread as the PC, internet or smartphone, which means niche product developments with smaller market sizes are the future.nevcairiel - Saturday, March 9, 2019 - link
Indeed. And sure, not everything reaches a market of billions. But at the end of the day, a product still must make a profit. And if its niche, yet popular in this niche, and expensive to develop, then it'll have to be a very expensive product.There is a reason VR headsets haven't gotten a refresh after the initial hype wave. The original Oculus Rift is almost 3 years in retail now, without any concrete news of a replacement. They tried with the Go to market it to more people, but thats it. (Although rumor has it that now we're finally close to a replacement coming soon). The problem of course is that VR was almost ready, but only almost. The visual fidelity was still lacking between blur and SDE, and a refresh would have to make substantial improvements in those areas, or it would fail, since it wouldn't have the hype to drive it like the initial wave of devices did.
Opencg - Saturday, March 9, 2019 - link
main thing that worries me is hitting the fabrication wall. if performance per dollar hits a salemate then vr wont ever have a chance. look for navi as it represents a new way to address the increasing cost of microprocessor production. if next gen consoles do vr well and computer users can have a $200 or less vr smashing gpu then it will take off. it needs to be affordablePeachNCream - Monday, March 11, 2019 - link
The problem with VR is that its been in an almost ready state for decades now. As far back as the 1990s, VR was a dream for tech enthusiasts and there were products, headsets included, that were driven by some crazy full length ISA card weirdness. They never caught on and though we have come a long way, I think we aren't there yet. The underlying technology is still fraught with problems including costs, but price isn't the only limiting factor. It is telling that we haven't seen much more than a few hiccups in the last two plus years about VR technologies and software development is lagging as well to say the least.jeremyshaw - Friday, March 8, 2019 - link
Eh? Nvidia's 3D Vision (active, high refresh driven 3D) was co-opted for a much better purpose: the proliferation of 120Hz and higher displays. BFI (ULMB) also gained momentum from this. Nvidia's push for 3D Vision gave rise to something much more tangible than a pair of 60Hz, flickering glasses.stephenbrooks - Friday, March 8, 2019 - link
Well, passive polarised 3D was a nicer approach anyway ($1 glasses) so I'm not too worried this version bit the dust.nevcairiel - Friday, March 8, 2019 - link
One thing I wonder about the 3D stuff though, are they just canning their own 3DVision products, or also HDMI 3D output to 3D TVs, say for simple movie playback? Worst case people can always go back to Top/Bottom formats, but those lose some resolution, so having proper HDMI 3D support is somewhat useful.That said, 3D TVs stopped being a thing, I'm not sure anyone still makes a new 3D-enabled TV anymore. But still a lot of them kicking around in peoples homes.
Manch - Tuesday, March 12, 2019 - link
Most TVs & projectors support 3D still. It's actually better than ever considering 4k TVs & fast panels don't lose the resolution or ghost like they used to. Games that supt stereoscopic 3d are easy to convert to VR as well. I'm surprised they haven't tried to push it again considering monitor technology/resolution & GPUs can now provide an immersive experience. Go with a large format TV and now you're competing with VR in some ways.KaarlisK - Friday, March 8, 2019 - link
This does seem a bit crazy considering I can buy a new laptop featuring an MX130 even now.KateH - Saturday, March 9, 2019 - link
MX130 is Maxwell, so that's still supported for now.KaarlisK - Saturday, March 9, 2019 - link
Whoops. Then it isn't as bad. Still irritating that even Nvidia doesn't support (some of) their mobile GPUs for longer than ~2 years. That used to be Intel's approach.The MX130 was released in Nov 17 so that's about when mobile Kepler (920M) was completely discontinued in new notebooks. Though yes, the bulk of mobile Kepler was replaced by Maxwell in 2015, so for most people it's 4+ years of support.
If I didn't mess something up again, that is.
Kepler: released in 2012, discontinued in 2017, unsupported in 2020
Fermi: released in mid-2010, discontinued in 2015, unsupported in 2019
theuglyman0war - Saturday, March 9, 2019 - link
3dvision gaming is literally the only thing that keeps me interested in gaming. Community driven fixes/solutions had me happy till now. between 3d migato/Helix and Hayden Flawless WSGF communities... ( active shudder hardware solution is the only reason I choose nvidia over AMD... Though I am sure big data research has no way of revealing how much market share they are actually losing )I now have to scramble to build a new 3d vision qhd surround 3dvision 2 setup before the end.
As an artists looks like my immersive interactive experiences not requiring a heavy HMD will be worlds/environments that I create develop for myself. very sad. very very sad. my whole realtime graphic interest has just changed from a gaming interest to an artistic pursuit.
I have two eyes and two ears I have zero interest in listening to music in mono or gaming in 2d like a depth challenged cyclops! A big step backwards for desktop graphics fidelity.
my stereoscopic solution will be sated 100% with heavy low resolution HMD strapped/tethered experiences? Phhphhht!
I have been furious that for the past 10 years there was no non quadro stereoscopic option for creating assets in Maya respecting stereoscopic concerns at all stages of dcc interactivity.
Lightweight glasses ( comparatively ) to refer to stereoscopic integrity when creating is easily the more viable solution compared to strapping a screen to my face.
stephenbrooks - Monday, March 11, 2019 - link
I heard they're deprecating stereo from sound output too, because kids nowadays only listen to one earbud ;)Searching around, I found something worrying: one of the people desperately searching for a 3D screen was in the medical field. If this stuff helped people interpret MRI scans and suchlike then that's a big loss.
Seriously thinking about rolling my own solution. Either two identical monitors and mirrors on glasses to converge them, or perhaps getting a silvered reflective screen and trying 2x polarised projectors (I have one already). They have this semi-working at work too. Have modified my software to give a variety of outputs - side-by-side on two screens for example - and even red/blue old-style 3D - for flexibility.
GreenReaper - Saturday, March 9, 2019 - link
One more reason to go to Linux for older hardware. Unfortunately, given NVIDIA, it might take enough time that it's out of support on Windows to have anywhere near close to full support on Linux . . .InvidiousIgnoramus - Sunday, March 10, 2019 - link
Frankly, I had already assumed they were under legacy support. I haven't been able to get the latest driver to install on my gt730m laptop at all.lightningz71 - Tuesday, March 12, 2019 - link
This announcement is somewhat odd to me. They are essentially ending support for all the GK1XX series chips IN MOBILE FORMAT ONLY. There are MANY boards that use the GK1XX chips, the VERY same ones that are in these mobile units, well up the GT/GTX 7XX series, including the GTX Titan. I suspect that newer drivers are going to be abandoning some of the power management techniques that were used in the GK1XX series in the mobile space in favor of increased performance. I also suspect that there will be an announcement of the moving of much of the GT/GTX 7XX line (save for the 745/750/750ti, which were maxwell chips) into legacy status shortly to finish off the Kepler line completely.