At least LTPS LCD would have been nice. IGZO and other oxide TFT were always thought of a cheaper alternative to LTPS while being better than a-Si.
With the crazy LTPS panel drop caused by chinas massive production ramp I would have expected them to spend those two dollars more on a brighter and/or more power effcient display.
IGZO is crap and in no way better than LTPS. LTPS has much better electron mobility and that's why all high end smartphones (inluding AMOLED) use LTPS TFTs and oxide TFTs are only used in <$250 phones (even lower nowadays).
It's my understanding as well that LTPS has more leakage and also degrades more quickly over time and contrary to what you said that it requires even more power to reach equal brightness as the TFTs have a larger area and thus block more light.
The benefit of LTPS and why it's typically used in phones is because it can be made much denser (higher PPI) and thus provides better resolution, and it's cheaper and easier to manufacture on a really massive scale due to requiring a lower temperature, and it has better uniformity.
Seems to me IGZO over LTPS is very much the right decision for a product like the Switch.
What's with these people making BS up? Are you mistaking LTPS for a-Si (amorphous Silicon)
"It's my understanding" : Just tell us where you have seen it having more "leakage"? TFTs are always active and switching when the screen is on. Leakage alone has no meaning anyway as only total power consumption is important.
"cheaper and easier to manufacture on a really massive scale" No it's definitely not cheaper. LTPS lines are the most expensive in the industry.
The biggest benefit of LTPS TFT transistors are that they have the highest drive current per area, thus making the transistor SMALLER than IGZO (thus the better resolution) and blocking less light. So it's the exactly opposite of what you said.
BTW Did you create a new account for that weird post?
3. Low current leakage: IGZO has electron mobility that is nearly as high as low-temperature polysilicon or LTPS. However, LTPS has a higher current leakage that results in high power consumption. On the other hand, although aSi has lower current leakage, remember that it also as lower electron mobility than both IGZO and LTPS
The low current leakage and high electron mobility of IGZO give it a more advantageous current flow than aSi and LTPS. This advantage means that the transistors in an IGZO display do not have to be refreshed continuously while a still image is being displayed because it can retain the active state of its pixels longer due to its advantageous current flow.
On the other hand, displays based on aSi or LTPS need to overwrite still image data through a continuous refresh. Hence, when compared to an IGZO display, an aSi-TFT or LTPS-TFT display consumes 80 to 90 percent more power, particularly when displaying still images such as photographs or documents.
Let me add that this is a very questionable source that you are citing. Why don't you inform yourself instead of spreading BS you read on a site that is obviously wrong on so many things? Even if you know nothing about displays you could just click on those other articles on that site to know that this site is ridiculous.
It's nintendo. They have a long history of conservative component selection in handhelds. Hell z80 was 13 years old when the gameboy came out, and then they continued to use that architecture in their handhelds for another 12 years.
The switch was never intended to compete in terms of high-tech features. It was meant to be kid-proof, cheap, and good enough to run the games they want, with a very mild goal of being a platform for their experimental toys (joy-con related stuff, labo, etc.).
You are a sample size of one. Nintendo has a support program going for broken joy cons, so it is a statistically significant problem, not some rare occurrence.
People need to stop linking all the things to Japan-Korea dispute. Nintendo has been using LCD displays and never used OLED display in their product.
More importantly, what Japan's doing is just realigning their prioritized countries, that's all. The term "trade war" is not right since Japan hasn't raised a single tariff on Korean products nor actually blocked their product from exporting to Korea.
You're kidding me right? You don't think the timing of the white list removal from export just after korean court ordered corporations involved with forced labor during japan's occupation of korea to compensate victims is odd?
Again IMPORT/EXPORT = trade. Anything that changes the trade dynamic between the two country negatively either direction = trade conflict.
I guess nationwide boycott in korea in retaliation of the white list removal impacting semiconductor material import crucial for OLED production isn't it
No, I'm not kidding. I was just stating facts and you're being emotional. Nintendo's new Switch equipped with another LCD panel has NOTHING to do with the current dispute between the two countries.
Look, you can have your paranoia thinking all day long but don't expect someone to empathize with it. What's your problem?
Like everything, Nintendo builds these things down to a price. They don't push cutting edge shit, they never have.
Even the Sega Genesis which came out years before the Super Nintendo was technically superior in a few key areas, specifically clock speed and synthesizer. A few years ago, the Star Fox engine was PORTED to the Sega Genesis to demonstrate the 68000 was actually capable of doing what the SNES Ricoh + MARIO\FX chip did.
The only cutting edge console Nintendo has ever produced was the N64. Everything else was built using off-the-shelf tried and true processors using standardized components, keeping things cheap and accessible and keeping Nintendo insanely profitable, at one time the most profitable company in Japan.
So don't expect anything high tech in the Switch. It actually makes perfect sense it's getting a panel based on technology from 2012.
If the pixel response times on these IGZO panels are anything like the ones I've seen on laptops recently, I can't imagine how they're suitable for a game console.
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25 Comments
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ads295 - Wednesday, August 7, 2019 - link
I suppose asking for 300+ ppi AMOLED would be a little premature... IGZO tech is generations old.Death666Angel - Wednesday, August 7, 2019 - link
Man, AMOLED has been around for over a decade, that tech is generations old.yetanotherhuman - Thursday, August 8, 2019 - link
And all the OLEDs in use from that time probably look like total crap now, due to degradation..brakdoo - Wednesday, August 7, 2019 - link
At least LTPS LCD would have been nice. IGZO and other oxide TFT were always thought of a cheaper alternative to LTPS while being better than a-Si.With the crazy LTPS panel drop caused by chinas massive production ramp I would have expected them to spend those two dollars more on a brighter and/or more power effcient display.
XabanakFanatik - Wednesday, August 7, 2019 - link
If I understand correctly, LTPS is leaky and uses more power than IGZO, making IGZO the better choice in this scenario.brakdoo - Wednesday, August 7, 2019 - link
Well, you don't understand correctly :)IGZO is crap and in no way better than LTPS. LTPS has much better electron mobility and that's why all high end smartphones (inluding AMOLED) use LTPS TFTs and oxide TFTs are only used in <$250 phones (even lower nowadays).
tecknohow - Wednesday, August 7, 2019 - link
It's my understanding as well that LTPS has more leakage and also degrades more quickly over time and contrary to what you said that it requires even more power to reach equal brightness as the TFTs have a larger area and thus block more light.The benefit of LTPS and why it's typically used in phones is because it can be made much denser (higher PPI) and thus provides better resolution, and it's cheaper and easier to manufacture on a really massive scale due to requiring a lower temperature, and it has better uniformity.
Seems to me IGZO over LTPS is very much the right decision for a product like the Switch.
brakdoo - Wednesday, August 7, 2019 - link
What's with these people making BS up? Are you mistaking LTPS for a-Si (amorphous Silicon)"It's my understanding" : Just tell us where you have seen it having more "leakage"? TFTs are always active and switching when the screen is on. Leakage alone has no meaning anyway as only total power consumption is important.
"cheaper and easier to manufacture on a really massive scale" No it's definitely not cheaper. LTPS lines are the most expensive in the industry.
The biggest benefit of LTPS TFT transistors are that they have the highest drive current per area, thus making the transistor SMALLER than IGZO (thus the better resolution) and blocking less light. So it's the exactly opposite of what you said.
BTW Did you create a new account for that weird post?
XabanakFanatik - Wednesday, August 7, 2019 - link
https://www.profolus.com/topics/advantages-and-dis...3. Low current leakage: IGZO has electron mobility that is nearly as high as low-temperature polysilicon or LTPS. However, LTPS has a higher current leakage that results in high power consumption. On the other hand, although aSi has lower current leakage, remember that it also as lower electron mobility than both IGZO and LTPS
The low current leakage and high electron mobility of IGZO give it a more advantageous current flow than aSi and LTPS. This advantage means that the transistors in an IGZO display do not have to be refreshed continuously while a still image is being displayed because it can retain the active state of its pixels longer due to its advantageous current flow.
On the other hand, displays based on aSi or LTPS need to overwrite still image data through a continuous refresh. Hence, when compared to an IGZO display, an aSi-TFT or LTPS-TFT display consumes 80 to 90 percent more power, particularly when displaying still images such as photographs or documents.
brakdoo - Wednesday, August 7, 2019 - link
"when displaying still images such as photographs or documents"That's for e-paper-like displays where the display controller doesn't refresh. What does it have to do with the Nintendo switch?
+ Japan Display offers ultra low power LTPS displays for still images (integrating those SRAM cells is only possible with LTPS).
https://www.j-display.com/english/technology/jdine...
https://www.j-display.com/english/product/reflecti...
brakdoo - Wednesday, August 7, 2019 - link
Let me add that this is a very questionable source that you are citing.Why don't you inform yourself instead of spreading BS you read on a site that is obviously wrong on so many things? Even if you know nothing about displays you could just click on those other articles on that site to know that this site is ridiculous.
brakdoo - Wednesday, August 7, 2019 - link
Here two pics showing properties:https://www.displaydaily.com/images/2016/March/Wag...
https://cdn57.androidauthority.net/wp-content/uplo...
willis936 - Wednesday, August 7, 2019 - link
It's nintendo. They have a long history of conservative component selection in handhelds. Hell z80 was 13 years old when the gameboy came out, and then they continued to use that architecture in their handhelds for another 12 years.The switch was never intended to compete in terms of high-tech features. It was meant to be kid-proof, cheap, and good enough to run the games they want, with a very mild goal of being a platform for their experimental toys (joy-con related stuff, labo, etc.).
zepi - Wednesday, August 7, 2019 - link
Switch is not kid-proof at all. Joycons are breaking left and right, even in gentle use.Xyler94 - Wednesday, August 7, 2019 - link
Haven't broken mine, going on my 3rd year now with the switch. And it's been traveling, played, and used lots. :)0siris - Wednesday, August 7, 2019 - link
You are a sample size of one. Nintendo has a support program going for broken joy cons, so it is a statistically significant problem, not some rare occurrence.ph00ny - Wednesday, August 7, 2019 - link
Maybe the trade war between Japan and Korea may have impacted their decision to go with IGZO over AMOLEDTams80 - Wednesday, August 7, 2019 - link
OLED is still expensive and there is still the issue of burn-in. Neither great for a console.dropme - Thursday, August 8, 2019 - link
People need to stop linking all the things to Japan-Korea dispute. Nintendo has been using LCD displays and never used OLED display in their product.More importantly, what Japan's doing is just realigning their prioritized countries, that's all. The term "trade war" is not right since Japan hasn't raised a single tariff on Korean products nor actually blocked their product from exporting to Korea.
ph00ny - Thursday, August 8, 2019 - link
You're kidding me right? You don't think the timing of the white list removal from export just after korean court ordered corporations involved with forced labor during japan's occupation of korea to compensate victims is odd?Again IMPORT/EXPORT = trade. Anything that changes the trade dynamic between the two country negatively either direction = trade conflict.
I guess nationwide boycott in korea in retaliation of the white list removal impacting semiconductor material import crucial for OLED production isn't it
dropme - Friday, August 9, 2019 - link
No, I'm not kidding. I was just stating facts and you're being emotional. Nintendo's new Switch equipped with another LCD panel has NOTHING to do with the current dispute between the two countries.Look, you can have your paranoia thinking all day long but don't expect someone to empathize with it. What's your problem?
Samus - Thursday, August 8, 2019 - link
Like everything, Nintendo builds these things down to a price. They don't push cutting edge shit, they never have.Even the Sega Genesis which came out years before the Super Nintendo was technically superior in a few key areas, specifically clock speed and synthesizer. A few years ago, the Star Fox engine was PORTED to the Sega Genesis to demonstrate the 68000 was actually capable of doing what the SNES Ricoh + MARIO\FX chip did.
The only cutting edge console Nintendo has ever produced was the N64. Everything else was built using off-the-shelf tried and true processors using standardized components, keeping things cheap and accessible and keeping Nintendo insanely profitable, at one time the most profitable company in Japan.
So don't expect anything high tech in the Switch. It actually makes perfect sense it's getting a panel based on technology from 2012.
0siris - Wednesday, August 7, 2019 - link
If the pixel response times on these IGZO panels are anything like the ones I've seen on laptops recently, I can't imagine how they're suitable for a game console.nathanddrews - Wednesday, August 14, 2019 - link
Does it really matter at 22fps?sheh - Thursday, August 8, 2019 - link
"In a surprising move... Sharp ... will supply ... to Nintendo.""...Sharp and Nintendo have a long history of working together"
Where's the surprise?