Yeah, it's crazy how even the MI cards don't have all CUs enabled. But Vega 20 is pretty big & their first 7 nm product. So, I guess AMD had some significant yield issues.
No they did not even know that the cards are in high demand by graphic designers and some people who do heavy number crunching. As i explained in my post here they sell for prices above the old new value. So there is clearly alot of demand for these cards. But nobody expected that those are used alot for pro tasks. Why else do they sell so fast second hand ..... They get posted and a few hours later its sold ......
Earlier this year, you could even find new ones still in the retail channel for < $600. I think $570 is about the cheapest I saw. But they all seem to be gone.
I’ve made $66,000 so far this year w0rking 0nline and I’m a full time student. I’m using an 0nline business opportunity I heard about and I’ve made such great m0ney. It’s really user friendly and I’m just so happy that I found out about it… www.iⅭash68.ⅭOⅯ
Hmmm... basically the Mac Pro's Radeon Pro Vega II, but without the Thunderbolt stuff.
It's surprisingly only in how long it's taken to come to market - a full 1.5 years after Vega 20 first shipped in the Radeon Instinct cards (which are not proper graphics cards, as they lack video connectors).
And it makes the Radeon VII seem like the bargain of the decade (i.e. the previous decade), if you need that sort of thing.
> With all of that said, however, the timing of the Radeon Pro VII’s launch is particularly odd.
No kidding. They really should've launched it with the Threadripper 3000-series. PCIe 4.0 would've been a good selling point for those in the TR workstation market, and (as noted) a good point of differentiation vs. the Radeon VII.
Speaking of differentiation, I really wonder why only 16 GB, though. If people are using these for non-realtime rendering, I'm sure the extra RAM would be useful.
Radeon ReLive for VR. It's something AMD has offered for a while. Piping the render output into their video encoder, and then from there back to the system. The only notable hardware it works with is HTC's enterprise-focused Vive Focus standalone headset.
I wonder if it suffers from the PCIe reset bug which prevents its use for GPU passthrough. AFAIK, all Vega cards have problems with this. It's a shame.
I stitch gigapixel panoramas and desperately want an 8K TV for viewing them, but I'm waiting for HDMI 2.1 or DP 2.0 on my PC before buying. This offering DP 1.4 w no HDMI, can you see the total disappointment on my face here AMD?
HDMI 2.1 barely on the market and capable 8K displays are so few and far between. With DSC, you could go even higher those single displays aren't out there yet.
DP 2.0 has just got ratified so the first products for that are still a full year away.
DP 1.4 is the best you can reasonably expect right now and six of them still gets you plenty of pixels.
Ampere will be announced tomorrow w HDMI 2.1 and DP 2.0. I'll buy one of those and choose between the many 2020 8K TV's w HDMI 2.1. There's no way to use DP 1.4 to drive an 8K TV at 60hz - you need HDMI 2.1 for that.
That's not true that there's "no way" - you can drive 8K at 60Hz over DP1.4, but it has to use DSC. Admittedly I haven't seen many products compatible with that, and a TV is especially unlikely to support it.
Ampere's not really a fair comparison. It's not actually available yet and the display controllers will be 2 years newer.
It was a foregone conclusion. This is a Vega 20 card, so it's not going to have any newer display outputs than Radeon VII had (which is built around a chip that first shipped in Nov 2018).
I'm kind of surprised that it took so long for this card to appear. The base Radeon Vega VII card appeared a full year ago. We know that AMD was still making these chips, at least in low volume, as they've had to supply Apple for the new Mac Pro.
On the flip side, perhaps Crossfire performance leveraging Infinity Fabric resolves a lot of issues. I'd love to Crossfire virtualization so that two of these cards are seen by applications as one larger 120 CU (or 180, or 240 CU) card. Regardless and while I know it is a professional card, I'd love to see some gaming test using multiple GPUs with the Infinity Fabric link to how things have changed.
"With all of that said, however, the timing of the Radeon Pro VII’s launch is particularly odd." --- "Hehe, didya see that video Jensen put out? Laugh a minute that guy! How are our Pro VII sales doing, anyway" "Our /what/ sales?" "You know, the Pro VII. That card we launched last year" "..." "We did launch it, right? Just after the consumer one?" "Nnnnnope" "Oh no. OH NO!"
I used to own an all in wonder Radeon, i think 9000? That was so awesome, I could play games, watch TV and even record in signals. That was a trully all in one great card.
You can get a USB video tuner stick, if you want to receive/record ATSC/DTV/whatever. Similar devices, for capturing your VHS collection or connecting your vintage game console.
Get with the times, though. Everything is digital and streaming. Analog video is dead and we won't miss it. And this from a guy who still has a couple VHS decks and LD players.
I've got a few new desktop retail cards bought on the cheap to use for general compute, rendering and 'BIOS frivolity' -- they reach-back on Enterprise to duo Fiji with HBM
**BUT**
thanks to 'Dave' the original desktop Fury/Fury X's (Instinct M-18s?) will run on 'Radeon Pro Software for Enterprise' 2020.Q1 driver, beyond the Adrenalin 2020 gaming drivers.
A possible simple answer for timing: maybe the Pro VII uses techology that was co-developed with Apple. A June release gives Apple a 6-month exclusive period starting from the time the MacPro became available in December.
AMD's MI50 uses the same spec chips, so that doesn't really hold water.
I mean, you could suspect there's no demand for MI50's, but then how do you explain AMD's recent upgrading of it to 32 GB? If demand were really *that* low, I don't think they'd have even bothered.
No. There's nothing on here that wasn't either on MI50 or Radeon VII, which preceded the Mac Pro by like 1 year and 6 months, respectively. If it had Thunderbolt, you might have a point. But it doesn't.
The article says why AMD claims it was delayed - that it was only brought out by customer demand.
The use of FP64 for every 2 FP32 would mean, either the TDP will be higher when using FP64 or the (turbo) clocks are reduced to maintain power/thermal limits. Not affected as much as Intel CPU's with AVX512 etc. but expect a hair-dryer effect. But you can by a few of these for the top Nvidia server cards, so it still sounds good for competition.
In the lead up to the launch of the original Vega AMD had a "Poor Volta" marketing push.
Vega failed in this regard Vega VII failed RDNA failed Vega VII Pro failed
The "nVidia killer" hype Lisa Sure and everyone else on team red has been promoting involving RDNA 2 is now being treated like gospel by the majority of the enthusiast community despite the fact that they have repeatedly failed to match their hype from years ago.
*Maybe* RDNA2 will live up to the hype, but that isn't where their track record indicates it will land, not even close.
Also, this is a card that "crushes 8k" but can't even output 8k over any of its connectors.... AMD marketing isn't bad, It's abhorrent.
I almost can't believe that after all these years, my BaronMatrix account is still active... But I guess I can... I've been hanging out on Disqus and working on my own news network...
Anyway, this is a big deal... It's basicall a non-custom VegaPro II from the MacPro.. That's a fully custom Pro GPU designed for MCM... That's why it has double the RAM... I'm more interested to see the first non-custom Arcturus card... That thing will be a MONSTER... I can guess 2TB HBM2 and maybe a small SSD for L4...
It does seem logical that some people wuld rather use a GPU than a Threadripper, but slap two of these in a 3990X box with 1TB RAM and you render 10 DEVASTATORS at once at 40% usage...
I actually found out myself that every radeon VII being sold second hand gets bought above the initial sell prices a year ago. So there is apparently a high demand for these cards. Now that AMD relaunches an improved version might give a consumer to get one at the more affordable pricepoint you actually expect to get when a gpu is more than a year old. These new ones have impressive number crunching capabilities so i guess these will sell pretty well for those who do benefit from these powerfull cards. And i am pretty sure many will be happy to be able to use 2 cards linked by IF because that is on paper a massive faster product.
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gsalkin - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
Is it weird AMD hasn't shipped a commercial version of the Radeon Pro Vega II?mode_13h - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
That's basically what this is, except only 16 GB (I wonder why...) and no Thunderbolt.gsalkin - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
Sort of... Vega II is also 64CUsmode_13h - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
Yeah, it's crazy how even the MI cards don't have all CUs enabled. But Vega 20 is pretty big & their first 7 nm product. So, I guess AMD had some significant yield issues.mode_13h - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
Oh, wait. I think the original MI60 had 64 CUs, and then they cancelled it and boosted the MI50 (with 60 CUs) to 32 GB.mode_13h - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
Anyway, smells like yield problems.Their current product page has both MI50's (16 & 32 GB) and no MI60.
https://www.amd.com/en/graphics/servers-radeon-ins...
BaronMatrix - Thursday, May 14, 2020 - link
AMDs reasoning was that customers bought a LOT more MI50s as it was close in perf but cost less... They mentioned it during Q419 call...bronan - Saturday, May 16, 2020 - link
No they did not even know that the cards are in high demand by graphic designers and some people who do heavy number crunching. As i explained in my post here they sell for prices above the old new value. So there is clearly alot of demand for these cards.But nobody expected that those are used alot for pro tasks.
Why else do they sell so fast second hand .....
They get posted and a few hours later its sold ......
del42sa - Friday, May 22, 2020 - link
a yield problem with only 331mm2 chip after two years of manufacturing ? Unlikely...mode_13h - Monday, May 25, 2020 - link
What happened in the meantime is that Mac Pro launched. Could Mac Pro really gobble up too many of the 64-CU chips?How else would you propose to explain the disappearance of the MI60?
Smell This - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
I suspect a good many went into the "clusters" -- otherwise, the 300w VII's w/o IF links are still out there. For $1K new, that is ...
mode_13h - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
Earlier this year, you could even find new ones still in the retail channel for < $600. I think $570 is about the cheapest I saw. But they all seem to be gone.BaronMatrix - Thursday, May 14, 2020 - link
@gsalkinThat's what this is.. The Pro II is called that because it's an MCM board with custom features specifically for Apple...
katherinedmathis50 - Friday, May 29, 2020 - link
I’ve made $66,000 so far this year w0rking 0nline and I’m a full time student. I’m using an 0nline business opportunity I heard about and I’ve made such great m0ney. It’s really user friendly and I’m just so happy that I found out about it… www.iⅭash68.ⅭOⅯmode_13h - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
Hmmm... basically the Mac Pro's Radeon Pro Vega II, but without the Thunderbolt stuff.It's surprisingly only in how long it's taken to come to market - a full 1.5 years after Vega 20 first shipped in the Radeon Instinct cards (which are not proper graphics cards, as they lack video connectors).
And it makes the Radeon VII seem like the bargain of the decade (i.e. the previous decade), if you need that sort of thing.
André - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
I don't think the Radeon Pro Vega II has 1/2 rate double precision.mode_13h - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
Hmmm... the internet seems strangely devoid of that information.rdgoodri - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
No kidding!mode_13h - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
> With all of that said, however, the timing of the Radeon Pro VII’s launch is particularly odd.No kidding. They really should've launched it with the Threadripper 3000-series. PCIe 4.0 would've been a good selling point for those in the TR workstation market, and (as noted) a good point of differentiation vs. the Radeon VII.
Speaking of differentiation, I really wonder why only 16 GB, though. If people are using these for non-realtime rendering, I'm sure the extra RAM would be useful.
mode_13h - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
From one of AMD's slides (the one with the boat in dry dock):> Untethered VR Support
What's all this, then?
Ryan Smith - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
Radeon ReLive for VR. It's something AMD has offered for a while. Piping the render output into their video encoder, and then from there back to the system. The only notable hardware it works with is HTC's enterprise-focused Vive Focus standalone headset.https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/radeon-softwar...
kobblestown - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
I wonder if it suffers from the PCIe reset bug which prevents its use for GPU passthrough. AFAIK, all Vega cards have problems with this. It's a shame.hubick - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
I stitch gigapixel panoramas and desperately want an 8K TV for viewing them, but I'm waiting for HDMI 2.1 or DP 2.0 on my PC before buying. This offering DP 1.4 w no HDMI, can you see the total disappointment on my face here AMD?hubick - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
Also, 16GB of VRAM is so last year.Kevin G - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
HDMI 2.1 barely on the market and capable 8K displays are so few and far between. With DSC, you could go even higher those single displays aren't out there yet.DP 2.0 has just got ratified so the first products for that are still a full year away.
DP 1.4 is the best you can reasonably expect right now and six of them still gets you plenty of pixels.
hubick - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
Ampere will be announced tomorrow w HDMI 2.1 and DP 2.0. I'll buy one of those and choose between the many 2020 8K TV's w HDMI 2.1. There's no way to use DP 1.4 to drive an 8K TV at 60hz - you need HDMI 2.1 for that.Spunjji - Friday, May 15, 2020 - link
That's not true that there's "no way" - you can drive 8K at 60Hz over DP1.4, but it has to use DSC. Admittedly I haven't seen many products compatible with that, and a TV is especially unlikely to support it.Ampere's not really a fair comparison. It's not actually available yet and the display controllers will be 2 years newer.
mode_13h - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
It was a foregone conclusion. This is a Vega 20 card, so it's not going to have any newer display outputs than Radeon VII had (which is built around a chip that first shipped in Nov 2018).Kevin G - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
I'm kind of surprised that it took so long for this card to appear. The base Radeon Vega VII card appeared a full year ago. We know that AMD was still making these chips, at least in low volume, as they've had to supply Apple for the new Mac Pro.On the flip side, perhaps Crossfire performance leveraging Infinity Fabric resolves a lot of issues. I'd love to Crossfire virtualization so that two of these cards are seen by applications as one larger 120 CU (or 180, or 240 CU) card. Regardless and while I know it is a professional card, I'd love to see some gaming test using multiple GPUs with the Infinity Fabric link to how things have changed.
edzieba - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
"With all of that said, however, the timing of the Radeon Pro VII’s launch is particularly odd."---
"Hehe, didya see that video Jensen put out? Laugh a minute that guy! How are our Pro VII sales doing, anyway"
"Our /what/ sales?"
"You know, the Pro VII. That card we launched last year"
"..."
"We did launch it, right? Just after the consumer one?"
"Nnnnnope"
"Oh no. OH NO!"
hubick - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
Maybe enterprise customers told them to wait until they could offer it with a stable driver.hubick - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
Or they were binning fully functional GPU's until they saved up a 100 of em for a launch ;-)Hul8 - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
The joke would work better if this had a fully enabled chip.mode_13h - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
lol.:)
Spunjji - Friday, May 15, 2020 - link
😂webdoctors - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
I used to own an all in wonder Radeon, i think 9000? That was so awesome, I could play games, watch TV and even record in signals. That was a trully all in one great card.This card can't do that, SHAME!
mode_13h - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
WTF?You can get a USB video tuner stick, if you want to receive/record ATSC/DTV/whatever. Similar devices, for capturing your VHS collection or connecting your vintage game console.
Get with the times, though. Everything is digital and streaming. Analog video is dead and we won't miss it. And this from a guy who still has a couple VHS decks and LD players.
casperes1996 - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
Hold on; Isn't this a cut-down Radeon Pro Vega II from the Mac Pro, which has 64 CUs and 32GB of HBM2? That one is also Vega 20Dribble - Friday, May 22, 2020 - link
They probably made a load for apple and had some left over so we get a release to sell them off.Smell This - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
Has AMD Radeon Pro for Enterprise reached back to Fury / Fury-X ??
mode_13h - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
AFAICT, there were two compute-only (no video output) cards built on Fiji:* FirePro S9300 x2
* Radeon Instinct MI8
Unfortunately, Fiji was limited to 4 GB and had 1/16th as much fp64 as fp32. So, not a good server chip.
Smell This - Thursday, May 14, 2020 - link
My bad ...I should have said, "Software"
I've got a few new desktop retail cards bought on the cheap to use for general compute, rendering and 'BIOS frivolity' -- they reach-back on Enterprise to duo Fiji with HBM
**BUT**
thanks to 'Dave' the original desktop Fury/Fury X's (Instinct M-18s?) will run on 'Radeon Pro Software for Enterprise' 2020.Q1 driver, beyond the Adrenalin 2020 gaming drivers.
Thanks, Dave ... and thanks, AMD !!
https://community.amd.com/thread/245226
March 11 happened to be my birthday -- :-O
rdgoodri - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
What, AMD Radeon VII back from the dead for $1900, i'll pass on that.Gc - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
A possible simple answer for timing: maybe the Pro VII uses techology that was co-developed with Apple. A June release gives Apple a 6-month exclusive period starting from the time the MacPro became available in December.Hul8 - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
Could also be that the commitment to provide Apple with a bunch of fully enabled Vega 20 chips leaves AMD a pile of faulty ones. What to do with them?mode_13h - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
AMD's MI50 uses the same spec chips, so that doesn't really hold water.I mean, you could suspect there's no demand for MI50's, but then how do you explain AMD's recent upgrading of it to 32 GB? If demand were really *that* low, I don't think they'd have even bothered.
Spunjji - Friday, May 15, 2020 - link
Could go either way - they might have made the upgrade in an attempt to get rid of some if they weren't selling. Hard to guess!mode_13h - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
What?No. There's nothing on here that wasn't either on MI50 or Radeon VII, which preceded the Mac Pro by like 1 year and 6 months, respectively. If it had Thunderbolt, you might have a point. But it doesn't.
The article says why AMD claims it was delayed - that it was only brought out by customer demand.
mode_13h - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
Besides, I doubt AMD would hide any Apple exclusivity agreement. If that were really the reason, they'd probably have just come out and said as much.Gc - Thursday, May 14, 2020 - link
MacPro was already in development in April 2017, according to https://mashable.com/2017/04/04/apple-reveals-mac-... Unclear how long it was in development before that.tygrus - Thursday, May 14, 2020 - link
The use of FP64 for every 2 FP32 would mean, either the TDP will be higher when using FP64 or the (turbo) clocks are reduced to maintain power/thermal limits. Not affected as much as Intel CPU's with AVX512 etc. but expect a hair-dryer effect. But you can by a few of these for the top Nvidia server cards, so it still sounds good for competition.Cooperdale - Thursday, May 14, 2020 - link
So will this run Crysis?BenSkywalker - Thursday, May 14, 2020 - link
Slightly slower, slightly cheaper but more RAM than a Titan V, but two years later with a full node process advantage and no power savings....Hard to believe the hype around RDNA2 when AMD releases parts like this.
Spunjji - Friday, May 15, 2020 - link
Your second sentence doesn't follow at all from the first. And what hype?! :|BenSkywalker - Friday, May 15, 2020 - link
In the lead up to the launch of the original Vega AMD had a "Poor Volta" marketing push.Vega failed in this regard
Vega VII failed
RDNA failed
Vega VII Pro failed
The "nVidia killer" hype Lisa Sure and everyone else on team red has been promoting involving RDNA 2 is now being treated like gospel by the majority of the enthusiast community despite the fact that they have repeatedly failed to match their hype from years ago.
*Maybe* RDNA2 will live up to the hype, but that isn't where their track record indicates it will land, not even close.
Also, this is a card that "crushes 8k" but can't even output 8k over any of its connectors.... AMD marketing isn't bad, It's abhorrent.
BaronMatrix - Thursday, May 14, 2020 - link
I almost can't believe that after all these years, my BaronMatrix account is still active... But I guess I can... I've been hanging out on Disqus and working on my own news network...Anyway, this is a big deal... It's basicall a non-custom VegaPro II from the MacPro.. That's a fully custom Pro GPU designed for MCM... That's why it has double the RAM... I'm more interested to see the first non-custom Arcturus card... That thing will be a MONSTER... I can guess 2TB HBM2 and maybe a small SSD for L4...
It does seem logical that some people wuld rather use a GPU than a Threadripper, but slap two of these in a 3990X box with 1TB RAM and you render 10 DEVASTATORS at once at 40% usage...
bronan - Saturday, May 16, 2020 - link
I actually found out myself that every radeon VII being sold second hand gets bought above the initial sell prices a year ago. So there is apparently a high demand for these cards.Now that AMD relaunches an improved version might give a consumer to get one at the more affordable pricepoint you actually expect to get when a gpu is more than a year old.
These new ones have impressive number crunching capabilities so i guess these will sell pretty well for those who do benefit from these powerfull cards. And i am pretty sure many will be happy to be able to use 2 cards linked by IF because that is on paper a massive faster product.
mode_13h - Sunday, May 17, 2020 - link
Looking at the ebay "sold listings" for "new" Radeon VII's shows 4 that have sold at or below list, this month:* May 2: $599
* May 3: $600
* May 17: $650
* May 16: $700
mode_13h - Sunday, May 17, 2020 - link
There were also some that sold above list - I didn't include those.