Perhaps you should start a section on quilting and another on cookie recipe's. Also, if you'd test hair color products you'd have all the women followers you want!
Perhaps you should start a section on quilting and another on cookie recipe's. Also, if you'd test hair color products you'd have all the women followers you want!
You stated the cause of the problem while commenting on the problem its self: "I'm not a woman, and we don't have any on staff." I know plenty of "geeky" women and think they would be interested in technology related articles. But you should consider bringing a female onto your staff to get some direction on how to report in a way that woman would want to read it.
Women who like geeky tech stuff, are a small cross section of the population. They are a small cross section of your readership. Amazing how that works.
I would guess they are represented here in a proportion equal to that of the general population of geeky tech loving women.
You don't need to try and woo them, they are already here.
I have never visited the vast land of the US but I expect that if you walk into a magazine store anywhere in the US the experience will be much the same as here in Australia."Mens' magazines" covering a wide range of interests clearly separate from "womens' mags" covering sweet nothing in the main (and the least useful parameter being the date of publication).
I work among non-IT professionals but while my male colleagues often enjoy tinkering in IT my female colleagues are generally numb to the experience.
Maybe there is some hard-wiring...
I do think that the women really interested in the inner workings will or allready visit this site.
However among women there is generally a lesser interest in technical subjects compaired to men atleast in my experience.
What I think you could do to appeal to someone lesser interested in the technical aspekts and still offer them more knowledge on the subject could be the following:
1. Whole PC reviews. Alot of people doesn't wan't to go through the hazzle to put together their pc by themselves. Some round ups with different manufacturers, their offerings and just some pointers on what to go for or what to avoid when buying.
2. Put a bit more focus into "softer" aspects of a product like design and ease of use.
3. Personally I really liked the DIY home theater articles that anand was doing. But how put something about how far regular people can go with ease and the right standard hardware and hifi
If you start trying to create some sort of blanket appeal to women, you will fail. This is because there isn't really any such thing as "women" or "men". We're all trained to believe in whatever collections of stereotypes are popular at the time. They change over time, but the bottom line is still acting as though there were only two individuals on Earth, named "men" and "women". It's always been that way and it has never been seriously challenged. If anyone mentions feminism at this point, they need to spend some time looking at real feminism. It's just an attempt to repackage traditional sexist stereotyping in a way that's sexist against male people only. It's even more strongly geared towards biologicial groupthink than the traditional stereotyping. The required first step in everything feminist is to define and judge people by sex - you can't have an ideology that is about female people without defining everyone to "female" or "other".
You will alienate some of your existing readers. You might, just might, get an increase in the percentage of your readers who are female, but probably only as a result of more men than women leaving. I think you'll probably end up with less women overall. Women who are interested in the detailed workings of technical (or mechanical) things tend to be independent-minded and therefore tend to dislike being pigeonholed into anyone's idea of "what women like". If they listened to that sort of thing, they wouldn't be here in the first place.
If you want to appeal to a larger/wider audience, as apposed to being concerned about what type of genitals you think your readers have, I have a suggestion:
I used to teach a course on PC hardware. I spent a great deal of time writing the entire course from scratch, from initial proposals to accompanying course notes that were not far from being a book (103 pages of A4), which I kept constantly updated so my students could use it as a reference guide for at least a little while after the course. I was a bit idealistic and too inexperienced to realise how much work I was making for myself. I adopted a sort of "Russian doll" approach to it all, with subjects explained in progressively greater degrees of complexity. The "outer" explanation was as simple and non-technical as possible while remaining useful to someone seeking enough of an understanding of PC hardware to choose components and build a PC (the basic purpose of the course). Students who wanted more detailed knowledge could go on to the next "layer" if they wanted to.
Using this approach, I was reasonably successful in teaching people with a variety of degrees of interest, from those who wanted a functional understanding and no more to those who were budding geeks who could be teaching me some things in the future.
That approach might broaden the appeal of your site and it would be a lot wasier to implement on a website than in a classroom.
I was under pressure to discriminate against men, as that was college policy. It was thought that discrminating against men would attract more women. It worked - when I left, they'd managed to get the ratio of women to men in the college as a whole up to nearly 2 to 1. So maybe you could figure out a way to do that here, if a higher proportion of women really is what you want.
Ok, the only possible reason for you to be concerned about female readership is for more advertising dollars. Shame on you!
I have noticed a steady decline of quality tech articles over the past year or two. Now I see your true motivation. You no longer care about providing the truth about the tech industry as you see it.
Please do us all a favor and rename anantech to anandblog or something more appealing to women? Anand's boutique?
I do not think I will be coming back to your site after a decade of readership. Bye!
Comments like this are so frequent in discussions of this nature that it proves my point effortlessly. All women, and even many men I know, find this drivel a waste of time and energy. Men tend to overlook it easier. Women tend to go somewhere else to avoid it.
~G~
I think it's great that you're even asking such a question. You must be overwhelmed by the range of responses from profoundly asinine to truly insightful, because of the tremendous draw this subject causes.
I have seen and experienced it all, from being welcome as a rare novelty to passive-aggressive rejection, and outright hostility. We really need to change the preconceived notion of a geek stereotype. Maybe with time, and as more geek women become more vocal, this will fade.
If you want to draw more women to your site, I don't recommend changing your content. You have a certain readership because of your content, and I think you need to be true to the people you already draw.
The big factor which makes a site more female-geek friendly is to remove the "asshole factor". Delete crappy, shallow-minded comments. Moderate your site away from discussion which is not related to the material, and keep it asshole-free.
This comment alone will cause both great and shitty responses, I am certain. Women don't want to spend the time or energy wading through idiocy. We face enough idiots on a daily basis, everywhere we go, believe me. We want useful facts, good examples, and no reflection of ego in the work or related comments that follow.
I'm a woman who has been involved in tech as a career since 1990 and most definitely qualify as a geek. I also have seen the whole range of reactions. From being unusually popular at cisco and gaming conventions (a girl who games?? COOL!! Marry me now!!) to having users flatly refuse to allow me to touch their PC because no girl could possibly know how to fix a computer. It used to be very annoying. Now I mostly shrug it off. The asshole factor on tech sites is a definite factor for me. While I don't necessarily agree with censoring posts finding a way to reduce the number those asshole type posts would mean retaining me as a reader/participant in a discussion for a longer period of time. I think most technical oriented women tend to be very interested in exchange of ideas. We want to understand all the viewpoints even if we don't agree with them. When we run into those asshole posts it pulls us out of that heady discussion zone back to the realities we have to face in our day to day world to participate in our chosen profession. That's a definite turn off. A place where that abrupt separation occurs on a frequent basis will soon get dropped from the read list.
I would recommend that you pick up a female writer. Not because I think you should have a female on staff but because I think the experience of reading tech written by a woman and seeing the ways in which your readership react to that would help you find the answers you seek. You wouldn't necessarily need to create a regular position for this. As a suggestion why don't you invite some freelance submissions from women. Alternatively you could come up with a couple of different article ideas and hold a contest for women. Reading a bunch of submissions from women on the same topic would you give you a range of women's reactions to study and learn from.
I think the introductory articles are a good idea. Unfortunately they go out of date so quickly it takes a lot of work to maintain a good introductory section. A wiki with an approved group of maintainers might work better. The gloassary mentioned by one of the others is an excellent idea and also easier to maintain.
The one thing I don't think you should do is change the focus of your site or "soften" the tech articles for easier reading. You built your reputation on being a review site for geeks. It's why your readers are here. If you change that you will probably lose more readers than you gain. In fact, I have noticed a general decrease in quality tech articles here as well as some of the other geeky hardware review sites. I have no direct evidence of this but it seems like there is a longer gap between product releases and quality reviews than there used to be. This may be the fault of manufacturers being slower to get out review samples rather than a reflection on the tech sites and their writers. It also seems like their are more articles coming out that aren't really complete. Once again this is a trend across all tech sites. If anything Anandtech is a little better about that than most.
Ah yes... the stereotypical (a-typical) anti-male rhetoric these days that nearly all loud-mouthed "fems" banter and blather about: The men of "today" are presented as dullards, the goofy-loveable-nitwit, a "whatever you say dear" pussy etc. While women are presented as: always-right, in control, wearing-the-pants in the TV-sitcom household etc.
Come on, please... for every negative vice that women can drum up about men, they themselves have the same or equally comparable negative connotations associated with their gender. I'm sick of these posts, painting *all* men as assholes, egoist, bullies etc... sorry honey but WOMEN are just as mean (if you have any experience as true "adult" you'd know this socially accepted fact of life), greedy, materialistic (much more so than men), conniving, heartless... blah blah. The whole notion of "if women were in charge," is bullocks, rubbish and pure bias drivel. If women were in charge they'd be just as cruel and heartless as their male counterparts. It's already been demonstrated in countless psychological studies. You want links? Google the shit for yourself, but please get off your nonsensical "women are better" tantrum.
This isn't some anti-female rant, shit my mom, her best friends (females), are true shining examples of adult women that can hold a serious job position, run a household, love their husbands and while raising children Vs most of you fake-fems out there shopping till you drop, reading endless gossip magazines, sport fucking the next hot guy in the city... Oh and the ever increasing divorce rates. For a man to get a divorce, he's marked, but for a woman it's "liberating," nonsense again. WOMEN are the reason the divorce rates in this nation are over +50% b/c they are the extreme predominant filers. What ever happened to "through better or worse," oh I guess that's cliche now that women are nearly "equal" and so forth. Lets face it, women don't need anymore this or that, they have everything they want: equal rights, respect in their fields (if you are a top performer), pay (that whole $.76/$1 is bullshit, women choose lower paying fields and have been proven to NOT put up much of a fight when it comes to salary negotiations - google it)... they only main reason men don't "like" and or want women infiltrating every enclave of "our" hobbies is b/c women have that 1 HUGE advantage over men, which they use oh so cunningly well: Women control SEX and SEX controls men innately.
When a girl shows up men start changing their tone; some carry on as if she's just another dude, and most start pandering to her for attention b/c it's what we're programmed to do. There's always going to be a problem when the all boys club becomes, shall I say, "infected" by the presence of a female. If you'll notice, all the negative talk in reference to men's hobbies and fields of choice are done strictly by women. Men - WE DON'T CARE about all the ego and blah blah, that's how WE are and how we interact with one another. Most women don't understand this, and thus paint a portrait of purely hostility. Men and women are different, and those differences are what make us unique and interesting. I'm tired of hearing about how men's behavior is something negatively connoted, while women's behavior is supposedly non-offensive, communal, accepting, warm and friendly... That is HARDLY the case, women are just as, if not MORE competitive with one another than men are, but since it's more subtle and less understood by men and hell, women themselves, they are painted as "harmless," and positive. 100% BULLOCKS! Women aren't bad, and should not be treated as such, but have you ever noticed that the stereotypical fem screaming about being excluded from all-male clubs/groups, yet let a man try and "invade" or infiltrate a women's group and all hell breaks loose. Women are always trying to be a part of the boy's club, while men are quite the opposite... WHY is that? B/c most things that interest women - men simply have little, to no interest - aside from the few stereotypically held notions that such hobbies/activities like: cooking, arts and crafts (sewing, knitting etc.), shopping are *only* for women: Such a sad state of affairs in this society that men are painted to be unfaithful, bullying, clueless/witless dogs, while women are (or paint themselves as) angels just looking to be accepted. lmfao get out and get a life people and observe for yourselves: women behave just as negatively as men>.< Google the damn studies if you really have no common sense to know this...
The last thing AT needs is to be "Title-9'ing" themselves into "including" or pandering to so-called "women's interest." If women are interested in tech, let them come and read like everyone else. Tech is tech; it's neutrally based and therefore ANYONE with a brain and intelligence enough to SEARCH OUT and read about it, is welcomed at their own prerogative. There's no special men's-only disclaimer regarding tech... Forums are a diff matter, it's a man's territory, so you're either going to play the game as WE play, adapt and or DEAL with it and grow some thick skin. Geesh I'm sick of the faux double-standard. Pander to *READERS* not genders. The nerve of you Derek... stop the bias please. Good day all.
***And if any women or men find yourselves offended by this little rant, ask yourselves WHY – YOU - are, I'm certainly not.*** Good people are good people: men and women. Assholes/bitches are too: men and women.***
Derek, you sound like a giant p*ssy. You also seem like you like to hear yourself talk because you have such a high opinion of yourself, that you want everyone else to also.
Cater to readers of technology, not genders.
Soon as this thread is done, Im done with AT, and Ive been reading every day since oh, 1999 I think, maybe 2000. Can't recall exactly.
the funny thing is when people try to have it both ways. first they say the sexes are equal in every way. but they are oddly quick to take credit for things their sex is superior at, you see this when things like superior "multitasking" by women are cited.
i wouldn't say that, toms got a bad habit of splitting articles into a thousand pages. i find it so tiresome i rarely bother reading an article on that site anymore, too much trouble. they drove me away.
Well, reading most comments left me with the impression that either a majority of the reader base is a lot more demeaning to women than I thought, or that it is overly vocal. Comments like "add some pink", "open a gossip section", "review shoes"...come on.
And to those who think the question of female readership is moot, sucks
On with the suggestions (in no particular order):
1. Dump DailyTech. Since dailytech made it's entry, quality (and quantity) of content has been on the decline. It feels like if you're relying on it, or consider it to be an integral part of your content. Clicking on a dailytech link sends you to a small article with tons of comments, most of which are garbage (which you end up reading since they're as proeminently displayed as the article itself). Garbage attracts flies. As a less radical proposal, hide the comments under a "see comments" link.
2. Get female writers. If something eludes you in writing style, presentation and what not, it'll be hard to articulate it with concepts. Get female writers, let them do their thing, and you'll get a feel of the difference it makes.
3. Introduction material : very good idea. As far as I'm concerned, that's educational material, and educational material is always good.
4. You were talking about how technology isn't just something fun, it's something important. It changes our lives, it shapes the future, society, the way we live. I totally agree. I don't think it's always for good though. Certainly some implements of technology we could have done without. Why not give a bit more space to these issues? When some new hardware gets out, how is it going to affect us? What processes are involved in it's manufacturing? Who are the people, the workers behind it (and not just the brains)? Hardware has history, and it's as much a part of it than it's specs. Sometimes you seem to touch the subject (ex: the bad advertising over the 140w Phenoms), don't just touch it, explore it. If anything, women are more sensitive to how people are affected by IT than men, and that's a good thing, 'cause it seems to me we often miss the big picture.
5. Remove the tabs on the website which only have outdated content. Or update them, fill them! Linux and Guides come to mind. New readership tend to explore a website. If you want to expand your female readership, well, that means new readership! And when they see sections with only outdated content, it'll give them a bad impression.
Correction : "And to those who think the question of female readership is moot, it sucks that you haven't realized social space is shared."
I'll add that about every comment on so called natural differences includes a macho, demeaning, if not downright insulting, picturing of women. Just read the post before mine! It's insane! Stuff like this should simply get modded down :
"There's no better way to get a woman to stop talking then to bring up technical computer topics. They start talking about some incredibly inane topic about what so and so said, about someone else, and you casually bring up the splendid new E7200 processor from Intel and see the reaction. Contempt and confusion are generally not far away."
You can't really believe all the liberal nonsense you've been brainwashed to believe.
It's simple, women, as a rule, aren't interested in this stuff as much as men are. You can try your cutesy, liberal nonsense all you want, but it's how people are made. There will always be individuals who go against the trend, but clearly genders are different, and only a fool can't see the obvious.
If you still don't get it, let's look at it totally scientifically. Men and women are clearly made differently, nature would be remiss if it didn't make each one specialized in certain behaviors. Making them clones would be less efficient, and if you look at many different animals, behavior differences between males and females are very common. It's just more efficient, and nature kills inefficiency.
My personal experience is much the same. There's no better way to get a woman to stop talking then to bring up technical computer topics. They start talking about some incredibly inane topic about what so and so said, about someone else, and you casually bring up the splendid new E7200 processor from Intel and see the reaction. Contempt and confusion are generally not far away.
Also, it's simply fact that men's and women's brains are different, and it's a fact that hormones play a role in behavior. So what possible reason could anyone say that gender differences aren't any part of it? You've been brainwashed by the media, and you've heard nonsense so many times, you're believing it without thinking about it.
Men and women are different. Nature would have it no other way, despite the liberal media. It's something you're just going to have to accept, and once you do, you'll appreciate it more. Who would want to date another man (well a gay, of course, but you know what I mean).
I know that when I read Anandtech's motherboard or CPU articles (say) I'm often dazzled by their technical depth...as well as frequently bufuddled. Try as I can there are times I'm unable to make sense of the discussion regarding north bridges and memory controllers-- and I've taken the intro to computer architecture course as part of my major at a California State Univ. campus. No great shakes, admittedly, but if I can't follow a general purpose article on the topic there may be a need for backgrounders.
As to the lack of gender balance in Anandtech's readership, I think Derek makes good points about societal leanings and pigeonholing in school. Not enough girls are encouraged in math and science and this is a consequence. That said, introductory articles on the site's bread-and-butter topics would be a big help for the sisterhood, and topics they might find especially appealing could get their foot in the door; cell phone reviews, "casual game" specs included in hardware benchmarks, digital photography FAQS, and how-tos...Wii Fit tips....you get the idea. Computer cases with unique designs.
Someone giving the site a first sniff might feel unsteady if the splash page is covered with articles about 45nm processes and how to freon cool your overclocked CPU. A mix of right and left-brain articles would soothe nerves.
Why don't you accept the fact that the majority of women are not interested in grafix cards and 1000W PSU's, or the latest quad-core CPU. My girlfriend, and all her female friends could care less about Anandtech. They read E-Online and other celebrity gossip sites, they watch Sex in the City and Desperate Housewives. They live for emotional stimulation, and a review of a 1000W PSU is not going to give them that.
Stop trying to force your idea that women should like the same things men like. We are different, and believe it or not, all my female friends do not feel like society is forcing them to like Celebrity Gossip and drama... They just do. I'll bet the celebrity gossip sites have the same problem in reverse... most of their readership is predominately female. Do you think they should start reviewing PC hardware to attract more males?
"speaking with a lisp". Why SSSpoil a good thing? Nothing is better than having a bunch of SSSweaty geeky menz, all just cumming together in private little roomsss, talking about their feelingsss... Umm, Umm, Ummm.. This is getting my RAM hot!!!.
Keep the fishes out.. Let them goto Oprah.com or something...
Ohhh, my song is on the radio... 'IT'SS RAINING MEN'
I think a wiki like system would really help things here. I am always interested in new technology, but sometimes can't help but get lost in all the acronyms.
It could be like the advertising systems on many sites that pops up a little message, then you could click on it for a more detailed explanation. If done right it would also be retroactive, working in all previous articles, and would need no additional work when writing new articles. You could have 3 levels of explanation on a subject beginner, intermediate and advanced.
is that women are retarded when it comes to logic, and especially retarded with computer logic.
so in order to get more female readers you should do the following
1) remove all objective performance measurements. All performance measurements should be relative to zip codes (IE this processor is as fast as the average processor in the 90210 zip code).
2) every item has to have at least one luxury brand naming on it, IE Chanel dual channel DDR or maybe the hardware should just come with gucci accessories,
3) the ideal peace of hardware for your women readers is probably one that is purchased, installed, and the end produced by the labor of a man. For example "baby, my taxes aren't done, can you like get some computer and programs and do my taxes" is how your average female reader would approach the anandtech website. So in retrospect, your site shouldnt actually discuss hardware at all. Your website should discuss how to find men who will buy computers who will then use those computers to do all the work for your women readers.
I don't know where you live, but here there are fewer women in IT, and even those few like to do something else in their spare time than reading more about technical topics. I also think women rather use hardware for other things than merely analysing it and taking it apart, i.e. technology isn't a goal but a means -- she would rather chat with her friends about/with her cool new laptop than come on anandtech with an indepth vivisectional rapport.
As for increasing female membership... If they don't want to, you can't make them. Seeing as it's a free, well moderated website, really the only thing holding anybody back is interest.
The funny thing is that I can't imagine websites about fashion, baby clothes, knitting or whatever complaining about attracting more men. I don't see the motivation for having perfect 50%/50% reader subscription. It doesn't make sense to diversify far beyond technical topics on a technical website such as anandtech, and there are limits as to how far you can "colour" scientific news to attract a wider audience.
Obviously I don't object to larger female participation, but I think that a technological website should first and foremost cater to people (anyone) interested in technology instead of taking the eyes of the ball and start specifically targetting women, gays, minorities, religions or any "focus group" irrelevant to science and technology.
-This article was stupid and pointless and you are going to lose readers because of it.
-Men and women are different and if you try to add stuff that makes it interesting to women, you will most likely drive the men off, which is the majority of your readership.
This OpEd could have easily been reduced in half with editing. Sheesh! Anyway, questioning why more women aren't involved with AnandTech (or other tech sites) because they are 'puter users too is like questioning why men aren't involved with more sites like the FineLiving.com and MarthaStewart.com because they also eat food and sleep in beds and wear clothes. For men, we don't care how it's done, who makes what, what colors and food ingredients go together, and other things - give us food and clothes and a nice comfortable sheet set and we're all good.
The same can be said for women who drive cars and don't care about mechanic's and auto enthusiast blogs. Sure they do their homework on new car purchases, but you will not see many of them go to Infinity G35 forums looking for an EPROM chip, exhaust, suspension, and brake upgrades. Give me a break!
I'm sure the vast majority of women feel the same way about computer technology. And regarding the gender gap and society roles for women, my sister for example was way better in math than I was in grade school and in college, but I had an interest in tech and she did not. So spare that apologist route of "society" being a cause.
I get so sick and tired of political correctness run amok in this nation (and the Western world in general) and worrying about what group is not a part of this group and that group and what not. Why can't we just realize that men and women are not the same, do not share the same interests (for the most part), and both sexes do not want this kind of stuff shoved down their throats, which is what makes us men and women to begin with.
Why don't we have more women, or homosexuals, or Church members, or... How about this cry: Why don’t we focus on technology?
Why don't we just stick to technologically relevant issues, product reviews, and leave the politically correct rhetoric to the special interest groups for which they lobby?
If I have to suffer having one more diversity day or mandatory adaptation crammed into my brain, at least one will be forced out my ass as I am full to the brim.
Don't get me wrong, I love AnandTech when it focuses on its strengths, but if it becomes a sounding board for Leftist Socialist ideology or a Religious Right Passion Play, then I am out of here. Those topics and arguments are better reserved for the political and social blogs or posting boards.
The answer is simple, women are inherantly and culturally inclined more towards feelings, social interactions, and men more towards control of physical objects like a computer and tweaking things (through upgrades). This certainly doesn't apply to everyone out there and that's why you don't see a 100%:0% ratio.
I am a man in a woman dominated field- nursing. If anything it is even more lopsided than IT. I also got my GF and a few other women into sportbikes. One thing men go to sites like this for diffrent reasons tham just simple info- and one of the reasons women dont. Men do it because it is part of "what men do" A big part of that is learned before they hit 10 years old. As a male nurse I almost have a script of acceptable behaviours markadly diffrent from a girl. Unless you are willing to brush off the "tech/geek" site mentality you wont get a lot of women. Bringing the benifits home will help especaly if you can bring some socal connection.
I think there are only very tiny real diffrences in learning but huge socal baggage. Funny all the male nurses on my unit are interested in computers the women dont seem to care in the least as long as it works and the girls have even said it is a 'guy thing'.
Come on! I have to say that most gender-related debate sucks and this one doesn't look any better.
About the pinky thingy. I don't think it's a joke at all. Why so serious? Why don't you go look at those women's things to see what is the main color scheme? What's wrong with pink? As most women I know like pink and I see no problem with that. You made it like pink degrade your intelligent and that really pissed me off.
As I've said you have to take the majority into consideration. There's always exceptions but that doesn't represent the big picture. Of course there're smart, blonde, long-legged, tech-savvy women out there. But it's pretty rare to find one. So can you please put this stupid argument to rest and start making AT a better place for tech-savvy or geeks to educate themselves. That should be a better thing to do rather than wasting time for this.
I had to chime in here... this is the dumbest article ever written on Anandtech.
If a site on women's shoes wanted to get me to read it, they would have to write computer geek stuff. Focus on your target material, and don't worry about whether the people reading it have a f'in penis or vagina. Jesus Man is this April Fools day?
Some stuff is naturally more appealing to a certain gender. You aren't going to change that, and you shouldn't be trying. Nor should you be putting the blame on anyone or anything. It's just the way it is.
God this made my stomach turn. The death of Anandtech is near. I have been a reader for as long as I can remember and now I think it's time to look somewhere else.
I had to chime in here... this is the dumbest article ever written on Anandtech.
If a site on women's shoes wanted to get me to read it, they would have to write computer geek stuff. Focus on your target material, and don't worry about whether the people reading it have a f'in penis or vagina. Jesus Man is this April Fools day?
Some stuff is naturally more appealing to a certain gender. You aren't going to change that, and you shouldn't be trying. Nor should you be putting the blame on anyone or anything. It's just the way it is.
God this made my stomach turn. The death of Anandtech is near. I have been a reader for as long as I can remember and now I think it's time to look somewhere else.
Fire the guy doing camera reviews, hire the first woman you come across. You'll instantly inject a feminine POV into the site and the articles can't possibly be any worse.
1) I am a girl. I think computers and hardware are really cool. I want an X58 mobo soon. Software and chat rooms are boring.
2) I work as a LAN admin for a civil engineering firm. It is very competitive and mostly male. They are always trying to bash each other with numbers and lame stats. That same thing happens on tech boards all the time. I find it pointless and stop paying attention to them.
3) Every time a guy realizes I can put together a computer, they are VERY surprised. I am a blonde haired, blue-eyed skinny woman in her 20's, (and married to a fantastic programmer.) Guys rule out automatically that I can build anything hands-on, based on my appearance only. It happens ALL THE TIME.
4) Some men feel threatened by my knowledge (I have fixed PCs for at least 5 years pro, many more before then) and then they try to throw cpu die sizes at me and fsb speeds or whatever, even though it is useless info. If I don't counter right away, they puff up. Girls, try buying a motherboard at a computer show.
5) I am told too many times how my predecessors were these male jerks who just showed off all the time and had a napoleon complex over their users. So now I have come to free them. :) And my users can ask me anything they want about how to use their computers. If I don't know an answer, it's OK. I will find it. And I WONT be embarrased that I don't know. And they won't be embarassed either. Ask all 2000+ newbie users I have served (I can't spell right now.)
LAY OFF THE PINK JOKES. PINK ISN'T THAT GREAT.
MOD YOUR FORUMS FROM THE FLAMERS. OVER-COMPETITION SCARES AWAY NEWBIES OF BOTH GENDERS.
I don't know your situation, but from my experiences, IT crowd around acts different way you interpret it.
Mostly, IT people are all more or less geeks and they don't care about gender slightest bit. They don't try to spam you with informations they hope you don't know... They just acknowledge you as one of their own kind and speak with you using their language.
I can understand you consider informations like cpu die size or FSB speed useless. Back in the days I was newbie in IT, I didn't care about such informations as well... But inevitably it came with time, just because these data are pretty important even if they don't look like that.
No doubt you can find idiots just trying to blow you off (mostly because you are young and blonde), but I sincerely doubt it would be majority of the crowd.
Anyway keep up the good work you (prolly) do. World of IT isn't male restricted territory, it's just male-friendly territory.
If you really want to make your site a little more valuable, you could start guides about all the cool stuff that is possible due to technology and/or troubleshooting and/or upgrades.
For example, I just started using Acronis True Image. I swapped out a 160GB HDD for a 500GB after making a new image. No reinstallation of programs, no driver conflicts, no hastle. 17 min and it's done. pop in the new drive and it's like my old computer (everything in the same place/same settings) except I have an additional 340GB of space.
Another example, recording music. I hooked up a turntable output to my X-Fi sound card and started recording my old records. Download a hiss/pop cleaner and washed the files. Now I have MP3s of all my vinyl records.
A third example. Want to transfer all those old VHS tapes (that no one watches) to DVD or even HDD copies? Hook up an ATI VIVO card to your pc, connect the VHS output to the VIVO input and use NERO to record. RIP it to DVD and you're done.
Fourth example. Host your own website. Use DynDNS to translate your dynamic IP address to a static. Register a domain and use APACHE to host the website... all in the comfort of your own home. Want a few nanny cams? Hook those up as well, and watch your nanny from your work computer.
So on and so forth. There is so many things that a PC can do, very few people using their full capability. Put out a few how to guides and this site will be even more interesting.
As the stereotype goes, women for whatever reason generally choose not to be interested in engineering as much as men are. Thats their choice so I dont see that anyone need to do anything to 'address' that.
To argue from the opposite direction, I don't see any websites for interests that are usually considered to be primarily feminine attempting to change in order to attract more males.
I also think its patronising and doesn't help anyone to modify an already good website in order to to fit-in with whatever stereotypical idea of what all women are interested in actually is.
One part of the problem is that the language itself comes from a male perspective. It is also an issue as well as not having any female editors with insights into what women like/dont like, if I were you I would put out a job position for a female editor/reviewers, etc that understand women, not just the geeky ones but the illiterate ones as well.
The subject itself (and even the aesthetics of the site, kind fo grey, dry and technical) though is part of the reason women avoid sites like anand. It screams technology is boring and a lot of women don't like it particularly unless it adds value (cell phone, myspace, facebook, etc)
They use tech as tools, it's not an interest in and of itself. Most people who come here have a natural interest in technology and keeping up to date for business or other reasons.
--
Another problem is the language that is used, sekaing in terms of what guys want to hear i.e. anand is all about the "dry" (to mayn women) details, the enthusiasm about hardware, engineering, etc.
But it doesn't cover things like:
-Usability
-Simplicity (does this make my life simpler, give me more time, or is it another time synch?)
-Aesthetics (is it sexy, will it go with xx, yy in my house, etc?)
-Music (yes women like music)
-Cooking /cleaning (yes women do a lot of cleaning, therefore, how can tech be used to help this problem!?)
-Time management (kids, school, etc)
-Reviewing software and websites related to women's interests (i.e. software with 3D models that allow you to view clothing/fashion, etc)
And that's just a start! If I were you I would be looking at successful sites that draw women in, one thing I've noticed about women sites is that the women themselves put 'themselves' out there, many of them don't hide behind screen names and put their videos online for all to see.
It works for guys and gals, put a few non geek looking dudes in the pages every once in a while with "bulges" in the right places and viola, women readers..., or viewers. Think SNL wild and crazy guys.
I started visiting this site regularly circa 2001 when the quality of Tom's Hardware took a nosedive into the toilet. A very similar thing seems to be happening here; founder no longer interested, other authors can't match him in either quality or output. It looks like the final stage - a flood of newbie-oriented popular hardware reviews with no technical detail - is imminent. Looks like I'll have to look for a serious hardware site again.
Anyway, the article is the same faux feminist tabula rasa idiocy I've seen from numberous third-rate tech writers who've suddenly decided to take up a crusade for more women in IT. It's just particularly sad that this author has taken the time to write a cookie cutter rant instead of working on useful articles. Yes there are a few valid points in there, but they're the same things we've been hearing since at least the mid 90s, to little effect.
The reason that there are few female readers is simply that a lot of men find technology fascinating for its own sake, whereas few women do. Not 'all' and 'none', but definitely 'a lot' and 'few'. The reasons for this can be found in the field of evolutionary psychology and have been touched on by earlier posters. Most of the readers of this site don't really /need/ the technical detail in the articles, they just find it fascinating and probably have done since they were children. Trying to focus on 'what you can do with technology' is either condescending or irrelevant to your core readership. You can throw away everything that made AT worthwhile and try and become another mass-market consumer electronics site if you want, but odds are that you will fail and fail hard. Trying to straddle both sectors is even worse, because you will still alienate the existing readership while keeping enough heavy technical stuff to alienate casual users.
1. Women and men are NOT same. It all began at times when men started to hunt animals while women grown vegetables. Thanks to that, during loooong ages men developed better sense for orientation, while women improved their communicative abilities. This change is obvious on the shape of man and woman skull frontal part till nowadays (notice women forehead goes much more straight up from eye brows while men forehead bends backwards much faster). BTW specialists don't flame me, I am not a bio specialist, it's just what I remember from my school days. The similar way mens brain is generally better with logical stuff, while womens brain is much better with mechanical remembering of things (see yourself, how many male and female real-time tranlaters can you find? It's obviously job better suited for men - languages - mechanical remembering of zounds of words)
2. Men play games. When we were little kids, we played Lego. When we grown up, we bought computers and started to play computer games. Then, we discovered our computers can be played with on hardware level as well. So, we've got our Lego for adults now. For Women, games are mostly waste of time, nothing more (don't ask me why, I have no idea).
3. So, now we have physical predispositions AND motivation for men to play with computers and similar stuff. There is just tiny bit of way to reach Anandtech, where we get info about our new dream Lego models.
All of this doesn't mean there can't be women with good dispositions to show up on AT, just in common, they have different interests. But after all, your idea about coming with some articles to make things better understandable for people ("How the CPU looks and works") is pretty good. But in the end, I don't think you'll manage to draw attention of females to AT if you stay "source for hardware analysis and news" because as simple as it is, 99% women don't care about hardware and imho never will... As much as I won't be interested about shops with skirts and women hygienic needs.
1.Less theoretical discussion of the ramifications of specs of upcoming components.
2.More practical guides for buying and building systems and for solving basic computer problems.
3.Less use of undefined terms that only have meaning to engineers (or define them!).
4.More personal input from Anand and others on the team.
I love Anandtech and have been here from the first month. However, I have to say the site was more fun when Anand was posting pics of his high school buddies, andd when there were fewer abstruse theoretical articles and more practical guides.
I simply don't know a single female who enjoys doing the insane amount of research I do daily "for fun". If that makes sense. Learning everything about technology and getting deep into it is pretty much research. I research politics, computing, technology, gaming, and science ad nauseam daily. I watch or listen to tons of news from around the world. My wife thinks I'm the wierdest most boring human being on earth, but for some reason still lets me see her naked. So I can't complain.
what i would like to do, though, is create some content that makes learning about technology less like research and more applicable to people who aren't already just interested in learning things for the sake of learning them.
beyond that, which should be helpful to both men and women who stumble upon our site and aren't already into computer hardware and technology, i'd like to augment what i do with things that might also appeal more to women.
obviously this does us no good if we don't continue to appeal to people like you and me.
i just don't think it should be a bad thing to try and improve my writing style and content to be more appealing and accessible.
An Anandtech article states "that review is coming soon" or "the roundup is nearly complete." Several months to a year later none of those promised articles have materialized and no explanation is ever given - "that article was cancelled" can't take that long to type (if an explanation is given in the forums, it ought to be on the site proper as well). This has happened several times.
But you guys have the time to write something about what you're doing to "increase female readership?"
Keep doing what was done to make Anandtech a great tech website. The more you say "we have this great article that will be very informative and useful to readers" and don't ever post that article, the less interested ANYONE will be in reading AT.
what articles have we mentioned that haven't come out yet -- let me know and i'll look into it. we do try and avoid promising things ... though sometimes i know i get excited about what i'm working on and want to share it.
i do apologize if i've slipped an article i talked about and didn't update everyone ... i'll try and be better about that in the future. but definitely tell me what you are waiting for and i'll try and give you guys an update.
There was the microATX roundup from hell that we got 1 or 2 segments of and no more. Someone (might have been you) did an article on upgrading a couple of home computers and said more was coming later, but I never saw that. There was the Ubuntu article from earlier this year that I have not seen.
The latest post in the comments to the preview says it is still coming, though that's the first word we've had of it since the article was posted nearly a month ago. Given the above two articles' limbo status and the P35 roundup / integrated video article from 2007 that never appeared I'm not holding my breath.
i'm a chick. *hoists vagina over head to prove it* and there are two obvious reasons for people to overlook my comment post: 1. i'm the wife of the blog poster, and 2. i've written a couple of articles for anandtech in the past. having gotten that out of the way...
my mind is in shock from some of the responses this blog posting has received. you've got to be kidding me, some of you honestly think that "pinking" up the design of the site will draw in the ladies? i'd have to guess the people saying that haven't found that lucky someone to share their lives with yet. impressive, though, how you can reduce something you know nothing about to a color scheme problem. do YOU actually understand and read the articles here or did you bumble over from the forums in a haze of being lost in the internet, refusing to pull over and ask for directions??
whether or not female readers at anandtech are being represented, they are often being nudged out in the industry as a whole. when the latest nvidia card hits the shelves with a half-naked fairy plastered across the front, the sellers have already chosen their market. don't get me wrong, if it will make playing black and white a more seamless task i have nothing against cluttering up my motherboard with it. but that's not always going to be the case with pre-gender-designated technology or with other women.
in my personal experience, the flaw in the educational system was not the fault of the professors, but of the students. as i worked up the ranks of mechanical engineering, i found the average female presence per classroom went down as the course numbers went up, and the people who made my life the hardest were the many males in the classroom. several of them tried to make me feel ridiculous for gathering members to do group homework, others acted like a pair of boobs clearly made me a viewing object and not a colleague, one of them even tried to rape me! after giving up on the major altogether, i wandered over to the math department and found all of the chewed up, spat out women. and they were significantly more accepting of their classmates after the trauma of trying to make engineering work. some of you posting here sound so much like the guys from solids. it's kind of horrifying.
as for how the site can draw more women... i agree that foundation articles and female writers would be an excellent start. i appreciate people who took this posting seriously and for what it is: a query for reasonable suggestions. it's never a bad thing to include more readers, and the great difficulty will be not losing current loyal readers to the changes. but sadly, right now it seems the reason women don't feel so welcome on sites like this one is staring us in the face on this comment list.
Quoting Derek Wilson: "I happen to know women who are much more intelligent than myself"
I think that sentence proves it! :)
Sorry, I couldn't help myself. But if you're authoring an article for AnandTech, you should know better (unless you were trying to prove a point - then well done!) I think it should be ". . .women who are much more intelligent than I (am intelligent)."
"Allow myself to introduce. . . myself." -Austin Powers
no doubt you are an intelligent man, educated and open-minded - i agree with some others here that you need not convince us.
i would agree with many of the comments that this not-enough-women concern is a non-issue. yes, this is a great opportunity to show us that you are aware of disparity.
but seconds to those who urged you to keep doing what you do best, focusing on hardware at (i'm not a very regular reader) whatever levels and breadth typify this site.
the web is a medium slightly different than print - those who want/need to read what you write will come, and those who find it lacking will leave. it is easy for new readers to find you, and easy for olds to leave. regardless of how you count them, i think it's important to ask yourself _why_ you are worried about your present and target demographics.
i am, in relation to my peers, a geeky girl. i'm the one they come to when they hear clicking, whirring noises from their pc (uh oh), or call up and say "something's wrong with my computer!!!" (great, but could you possibly be more specific?) i have arrived at AT pages often in my researching and troubleshooting efforts, but rarely check in as part of my regular reading. would i call personal computing technology a hobby? yes. i've just spent weeks agonizing over which CPU and heatsink to get, and i cared about every little hertz, watt, and decibel that i read in reviews. i ended up choosing a green solution that will work for me, though not without often saying to myself "you're not going to notice the difference in real life" over and over. but hey, some folks will. perhaps unlike some of the women that commenters have mentioned, i do care about the how and why and endless specifications that go on, to best make an informed decision that will serve me today and in the future. at least, i cared in the last three months. i've just finished my build, and as much as loved it, it's time to enjoy the fruits of my learning. (er.. right after some burn-in time, of course)
my geekiness comes and goes, as does the need for it to matter in my life. usually that need coincides with my upgrade cycles and/or hardware/software failures. i think this is a demographic you might need to consider - many people are not consistent and constant in their needs. when the need comes, i am glad that anandtech is the way it is - the last thing the web needs is more generalized sites chock full of brief and shallow information - generalized ostensibly to appeal to the widest possible audience.
in my geeky periods, i learn a lot about the current state of things, as well as spend some time reconstructing what was happening while i was away. i wholeheartedly support articles of historical/basics focus, as this definitely an area in which so much changes so quickly, including the basics. sound advice during my last upgrade cycle doesn't cut it anymore.
whether or not this need for both specific and general knowledg arises because i am male or female is, i believe, a moot point. it has nothing to do with my level of education or my interests or how i was socialized to view tech. i am both obsessed with level 2 cache and totally unconcerned with it, within the span of a week. i haven't read enough articles to know whether worries about playing tech advocate on a social level is a regular feature here on AT. if so, i will probably stumble upon you again when i'm looking for views on women and technology. it's an ongoing question with many answers.
but in the meantime, serve the needs of those readers you do have - male and female alike. by the miracle of the search engine, potential readers who also have a need for what you have to share will find their way to you, when do what you do best. if you start tailoring articles to appeal to women (can you possibly tailor to such a *varied* audience without reducing the focus of your work?), my guess is that women will not magically flock.
keep up the good work - see you at the next upgrade!
(i've not touched on what i think might account for underrepresentation of women in the field and the overgeneralization of women not liking or caring about tech - but i would like to share the last time that really got my goat... read on if i haven't bored you to tears yet.
years ago, my work pc sputtered and died during term papers season. a basic run-through revealing nothing obvious, i corralled up a friend with a car to take leo (the pc) to the local shop. the tech repeatedly spoke to my male friend instead of me, under the assumption that either it wasn't my computer, or that i wouldn't understand. ironically, my friend had no idea what the tech was telling him. anyway, i left leo overnight for the tech to diagnose and went back to work.
the next day, i got a call to say that the motherboard had gone south, would i approve a replacement, and the cpu fan's starting to go, would i approve that? sure, go ahead, make sure the board has the same features as the current one.
it did, almost. unfortunately he'd replaced the motherboard with an entry-level board which ruined my impending upgrade. to replace the board again would incur a restocking fee so i let it go. what bothered me was his attitude, as if he had already decided certain things about me because i was a girl, such as ... all i would care about the motherboard was that its colour matched my case. yup. he picked the only purple in-stock motherboard to go with my purple anodized lian li case. unfortunately, the case doesn't have a window so it hardly matters.
i want to share this because assumptions are so dangerous - to make assumptions about a person's attitude towards tech because of their gender is closing a mind much more than it is opening one. guy things and girl things are all just things in the end.)
I think a lot of it simply boils down to left brain vs. right brain.
The site is dominated by the proverbial tape measure. Stats and benchmarks and stats and stats and benchmarks and 1.21 gigawatt PSU roundup tests only matter so much.
We are now in a world where mid-range products are more than fast enough. So find out what's now relevant. Find other focuses. What new things can we DO with this performance surplus? How can we SAVE money, energy and time with our current systems? What about silencing our PCs? What about green products? How do we build a green PC?
You know the saying. It's not the size that counts. It's how you use it. We're there.
That being said, there are a lot of things that are just socially referred to as "guy things". Be it cars, gadgets, computers, A/V equipment, or whatever. This is a tech site with a geeky premise, and so geeks will visit. It's generally gender-neutral in that regard.
*But* I told the smartest woman I know (teaches physics at a university) about a new sound system I got for the TV room, all she could say was, "but how does it sound?" And that's as honest a question as can be. She understood me but that doesn't mean squat because systems are not all created equal... How does it sound?
It can be done without "alienating" the current audience.
While it may not be politically correct to say it, there actually are differences in intelligence between men and women. On a sliding scale of intelligence, iq, men tend to clump toward one extreme or the other while women tend to be more evenly spread across the spectrum. So, while it is true that there tends to be more men that are genuises, it is also true that there more men that are completely stupid - kind of balances out.
First definetely do the introduction articles; I researched every term and every thing I came across about computers when I was starting high school; instead of doing homework, then later I started working in the field. I have the base, but it took a while. It would make it much easier for people to get interested in this if the base was written out in a few articles. Videos and pictures would definetely be good to include. Second, there have been studies showing that womens brains are less inclined to be able to understand hard logic and reasoning and there-fore it's harder for them to understand math and science; obviously there are exceptions. Just as it's harder for most male's to understand metaphore and indirect logic. If you understand that, and that women run on emotion not logic, it will help in writing articles they may be interested in. Pretty and shiny and socially elevating, more so than bang for buck. That last part is based on most girls I know, so maybe it's not true of most girls in general but I doubt it.
The number of women (or any group) that reads this site is irrelevant. It is a tech site that appeals to techy people. It is just a fact that techy stuff appeals to more men than women, just as, say, Vogue and fashion magazines appeals to more women than men. Men and women probably have somewhat different brains on average, that leads to general average differences in interests. There is nothing wrong with differences in life -- it makes life more interesting. As long as people are respectful of the values and interests of each individual, then group averages are irrelevant. It is actually insulting to women to suggest that "something be done" to get them more interested in X. Such comments these days typically come either from me, or, excuse me, women who look like men. Who the hell appointed these social busybodies as spokesmen for all these allegedly underprivileged helpless women who seem to be so pathetic and clueless that they don't even know what they should be liking?
You don't have to try that hard to show everyone how pro-women you are. Just let things flow naturally.
I do not deny that there're women that are smart, nice and cool. But you have to admit the majority of women is not that much into geek's stuff like men do. Besides, Anandtech is not some newly-established tech news that you have to cry out loud for readers. Just monitor the hits and if it's OK then it's OK.
If you crave that much for female readers, I suggest you open a shout box labelled "women opinions only" or set up some pinky, girly,flashy button something that's read "Especially for you - girls". :-)
Why not invite an article from a guest writer on women's issues? From an exposure perspective Anandtech has a large readership, and would be a good venue for a guest piece on the topic of Women in Computing.
Carmen van Kerckhove's work at www.racialicious.com is superb, and she has been featured as a contributor to such outlets as CNN and NPR, and keeps an excellent blog and podcast at www.addictedtorace.com. She blogs equally about both race and gender issues, and would be ideally suited to give some perspective on the problem of involving women in computing, and would probably provide excellent and insightful commentary on the topic to the readership at Anandtech. Considering her use of technology, she is undoubtedly quite computer savvy.
Another individual who is quite interested in involving women in computing is Lydia Kavraki, a professor of computer science at Rice University. Her research in robotics and bioinformatics is cutting edge, and has frequently involved the education and involvement of women in computer science and computer science research. She will also undoubtedly have excellent and insightful comments for the readership at Anandtech.
Anandtech has the unique advantage of being at the cutting edge of trends in much of consumer level computing hardware and software discussions, and is, of course, part of the reason why overclocking and other hardware mods are so mainstream today. Such a venue is an ideal location for input from someone like the individuals mentioned above.
"Carmen van Kerckhove's work at www.racialicious.com is superb, and she has been featured as a contributor to such outlets as CNN and NPR, and keeps an excellent blog and podcast at www.addictedtorace.com."
Don't know the woman or her work, but wow, that's a scary introduction.
"Why not invite an article from a guest writer on women's issues?"
Because this is a technology site? Arguments on what I like and how I like it to be presented aside, I want tech info and analysis. I could not care less about who wrote it, so long as it is accurate and of high quality. Veins in my forehead are pre-emptively throbbing at the thought of articles that go "As a woman, the clock frequency for this Kingston RAM..." or "My afro-phillipino heritage gives me special appreciation of the clock frequency for this Kingston RAM..."
At its mildest it is patronizing, and easily slips into offensive and bigoted to pick tech writers based upon the structure of their crotch and/or the RGB values of their skin color. "Now we have an article written by a (woman/member of a race) for (women/members of a race) so that they will be able to understand and appreciate it." Umm... no.
Give the crew here good enough material, I'm sure they'd be happy to consider publishing it. The moment that material wouldn't be good enough to be published, but is published only because behind the keyboard the author is [insert identity group(s) here], something's terribly wrong.
Seriously though, the editorial decisions that have driven the perceived readership demographic here aren't news. They've been covered again and again and again. Only thinking of it in terms of potential female readers is having an editor actually think about what's been dismissed for ages, and trying to brainstorm rationalizations for how this is a new concern.
"The proofreading is chronically shoddy, especially for a commercial site."
"The readers can get bent. This is a tech website!"
"Not everyone is in the market for a $1200 camera..."
"The readers can get bent. This is a tech website!"
"Not everyone will pay $300 more for RAM for 2 fps better in Crysis"
"The readers can get bent. This is a tech website!"
"Not everyone is concerned with vanity-silencing a PC tasked with pumping out audio to a beefy surround-sound system."
"The readers can get bent. This is a tech website!"
"OK, fine, I give up. Besides, I like some of the tech aspects too."
"Damn skippy! This is a tech website providing detailed info on technical specifics. We're not about to put up with the wants of people with broader, more casual tastes. I do wonder where the girls are though." [begin fumbling around for external causes to blame]
"The moment that material wouldn't be good enough to be published, but is published only because behind the keyboard the author is [insert identity group(s) here], something's terribly wrong. "
You have misread my post and are beating an imaginary strawman. Go back under the bridge and ask someone else to answer your three questions. I was not suggesting that these individuals be asked to write a tech review. That is a product of your imagination. My suggestion was far more pragmatic and logical.
I was suggesting that a follow up piece to this one, regarding the problem of women in computing, be invited from an individual who has thought about gender and race issues. Considerable thought and research has been put into this social issue, and, following Anandtech's considerable history of being on the cutting edge, it is best that someone on the cutting edge of this field update us with the most recent thought on issues of gender in computing. We've already had one article about the topic - this one - why not have another from an expert?
The people complaining that "Anandtech is a tech website and I just want tech" are being exclusionist. These complainers are very much like the people who cry "BUT WHAT ABOUT THOSE PEOPLE WHO JUST WANT A PHONE?" every time a smartphone comes out. Go back to the stone age. Tech and society are totally intermingled, and to discuss only one and ignore the other is to become irrelevant. If you think that one piece on women in computing, after the years of tech pieces is somehow diluting your "pure tech" needs, you have a problem. Consider running cat 5e intravenously.
The majority of us understand that technology influences women and men, and that the lack of involvement of women at Anandtech may be an indicator for a wider set of gender issues surrounding technology. Those of us who desire a competitive workplace, so that our jobs are not shipped over seas, understand that solving engineering problems requires diversity of thought, and that diversity of thought begins with diversity of participation. Indications that we accidentally disenfranchise 51% of the human race is a problematic indicator. By arguing that you dont want to discuss gender issues at Anandtech, even briefly (I am in no way advocating that Anandtech have a major gender activism component) makes you, fishbits, part of the problem, and not part of the solution.
What in the world is going on at AT?
This website is about hardware and its for geeks and hardware enthusiasts. A geek can be a male, female, an alien from Mars or even someone from outside the United States (as strange as that might seem for AT, its website can be accessed from anywhere in the world with an internet connection). You are not making a Hollywood movie that needs to target a wide audience. If someone wants to ramp up on certain hardware basics, they can search online and find such information. Links to good sites would be a nice idea.
So please stop wasting time and go back to what you do best - hardware.
I second the suggestion where the reviews/articles are split into 2 - basic and advanced.
If you want more readers (male, female, or other), how about using facts to generate your positions and then document those facts (with sources)? For instance, what facts do you have to back up the entire premise of this article (i.e., not enough female readers)?
- First, how did you even measure that number? Avatars? Names? Gender in registration screens? All of those items are self-selecting and self-generated. There's no way you could even measure the gender of your actual viewership, let alone verify it if you could.
- Second, even if you had some number that said your viewership was x% female, how does that compare to your potential audience? How did you come up with something that would give you a rough size of that potential audience? How about using the percentage of Computer Science degrees as a reasonable stand-in for that number? Going to:
you can see that the percent of Computer Science Bachelor's degrees awarded to females has gone from 15% to 25% of the total from 1966 to 2004. Master's degrees went from 7% to 31%. Doctorates from 0% to 21%. So, roughly speaking, the best female readership you could reasonably hope for would be about 25% of the total. The thing is, it's also reasonable to use Electrical Engineering degrees as a reasonable stand in for Anandtech's potential readership. In that case, from:
your best possible female readership would only be about 14%.
- Third, what makes you think that (assumed) low female readership of Anandtech is some kind of metric that indicates a bad thing? What did you use to justify the leap from Anandtech's material to something valued by society at large? The stuff you talk about here is not just technical, it's not just regular computer user stuff, it's not just nerd/geek stuff, it's over-clocking, more memory, bigger power supply, more loud fans, cases with fins, nerd/geek, technical, computer, self-selecting stuff. In the grand scheme of things, someone could fire us (your entire readership) off towards another planet and, unless those remaining all died of a disease contracted from a dirty telephone handset, it would hardly make a difference to society at large.
- Fourth, you ask: "if it isn't a question of applicability or capability, then why don't more women read our articles?" Perhaps (again, assuming your unmeasured premise is true) the reason is (and this is one of my favorite sayings) just because men do something stupid, doesn't mean women should, too. IOW, maybe women are smart enough to not want to be geeks.
-Fifth, you say: "I'm going to go ahead and point a finger at our failing effort at education in this country and put a good amount of burden there." Where's any proof of anything in that statement? Take a look at the growth in percentages from those links, above. Did you do any kind of research before writing that kind of tripe?
- Sixth (oh, forget the ordinals). You say: "Fewer women than men are in technology." Maybe "computer technology." But, not all technology. If you look at:
you'll see that as of 2004, 50.4%/43.6%/37.4% of all the Bachelor's/Master's/Doctoral degrees in the sciences and engineering fields were awarded to women. There's more to technology than computers. And, maybe, just maybe, women might just prefer other areas of technology.
- Then, you say: "Our educational system does not do a good job at all of offering different teaching styles to people who learn in different ways. For whatever reason, math and sciences tend to be taught in ways that are more accessible to men than women." Where's your proof of any of this? There are thousands of higher education institutions around the world. Surely, unless competition is dead, some of those would have come up with some way to better teach over half the population and thus increase their profitability. Of course, once again, maybe women just prefer to learn different subjects. Remember, the random placement of two statistics (well, one statistic and one faulty premise) does not imply causation.
- Finally, I'm going to group all the rest of your article into "we need to do such and such and so and so." You don't NEED to do anything. You might WANT to do something. But, this is the web. Anyone can write anything they want. If there's a market somewhere, someone will fill it. Perhaps you want more readership so you can make more money from your advertisements. Perhaps you think women are some kind of low-hanging fruit that will allow this. Fine. It's your web-site and you can do whatever you want. But, don't delude yourself (or us) that you NEED to do something or the world will end.
bingo, women actually are over represented in areas such as the medical field these days. medical schools are majority women, nursing is obviously dominated by females. and neither is being outsourced!! so obviously the idea of trying to force fit everyone into preconceived ideas of what things are good or where they should be is a load of nonsense. the whole why women aren't in technology question is just a load of bull when they don't look at where women ARE going.
Dude first u have literally no idea on the gender composition of the people who read this .
Second as one guy said here this was primarly a gaming site in the beginning. By specifically targeting a more female audience u might alientate your viewership base who come here to read the intelligent articles u write about hardware, don't make the mistake of thinking of making more articles to cater to a larger audience because there are downsides to it to like wasting time on creating those articles and not covering your normal stuff.
Third, times are changing girls are getting into gaming, so i suspect in 5-10 years time female viewership will naturally increase as well. don't be impatient.
Fourth, don't create problems when there isn't, the articles here are genearlly gender neutral. you have never wrote anything with for just the male geek. there is no reason why female viewers shouldn't come here. maybe its not anything wrong with anandtech but currently society doesn't have the demographic that supports what u want.(basically don't think there is a problem when there is none) If a person has no interest in computing stuff u will never be able to pull them in no matter how well your articles are.
What u guys could do however is beef up some of your existing articles. I don't see enough linux and mac articles which i personally want to see more of .
And u guys could have something like what tom's hardware guide has the cpu and harddisk charts those are something that are lacking in this site. If u want to attract more people just go and do some historical articles on how some computing technologies evolved so it would be better. btw u guys don't even do vidz like tom's or extremetech another area to improve on(btw if u look at the internet the trend is increasing, you guys need to upgrade). articles are also very poorly integrated with one another. Basically what i am saying is before u venture into new territory make sure u are ready , there are still a ton of things u could do here to improve readership without speicifcally going for the female audience.
How many female writers write for AT? How much direct female influence do you have in directing the future of the publication (wives and girl friends are not direct)?
Why bend and distort your core competency to attract a different reader, when you can bring on a few talented writers (or editors!) who are going to bring with them different perspective? Branch out, don't cave in.
Now you're supposed to ask, "Well, where does one find female writers who are talented and want to write for AT?" I'm glad you asked. Ads (not on your site, they won't attract women), writing competitions, organizations that encourage girl friends of nerds to do X are a good start. Maybe start a column? A small series?
I think it's great that you at least pay attention to the reader demographics to broaden your readership base. Best way to do that is to ask, which you have done; I applaud.
That being said, I agree with some of the comments already posted and add my own twist. The question is not "What should I do to expand the numbers among the female audience?" The reason, as well-stated by others, is to avoid overreaching the bounds of what Anandtech has become to its loyal readers. Blog posts about building Anand's home theater are fine as long as they remain as blogs w/ a personal quality to them, but regular coverage of some topics is sure to drive away some of your current readers. Consumer electronics (i.e. DSLRs) are great as long as the focus remains technical. Once you overreach into style over substance, I'll drop you faster than I dropped CNET. DON'T ASPIRE TO BE ANOTHER CNET.
So then I suppose the question becomes "Are we doing something to ostracize women?" Without sounding too preachy, today's social climate simply shapes a greater proportion of males to be more tech-oriented. Personally, I believe the inroads made by today's women will have a terrific impact on the next generation of women, but it'll be another 10+ years before you can state that there is no gender bias in IT, computing, gaming, or engineering -- let alone all of them. That day will come, though.
In the meantime, I wish you'd go back to the roots of this site -- reviews, display tests, guides -- and maybe start a series covering the nuts and bolts basics of overclock hardware tuning.
It does!
One (very) common marketing technique goes like this:
If you have a boring standard normal product and want to do a "special edition" only for women, the - I wish I was kidding - official marketing slogan is: "Shrink it and pink it"
Just look around the capitalistic world. It's true.
face it, knowing about the fastest gpu and what all the new marketing terms and features are is not important to most peoples lives. guys do it because it fuels an obsession with technological power, and lets them game. people are free to do what they want, if they dont enjoy obsessing over games or computer hardware so be it. its just a hobby. This stuff is mostly technical minutia. dont make it more than it is. always the questions with why women aren't in IT more, or why they dont play as many games(ignore fake statistics that include solitaire). always the assumption that the sexes have the same interests and that women dont share mens means theres something wrong. men don't share many female interests as well.
trying to make something universal that appeals to a niche audience will only dillute your mission and ruin the content for your core audience and won't appeal to the female audience anyways. you will just be shooting yourself in the foot for nothing.
as you've said, you are all men on staff. you've gravitated to this by your own accord. no one forced you into this field by dumbing it down and force feeding it to you like it was some horrible medicine that was "good for you". you liked it, and ran with it. thats all there is to it.
quote: That last bit is key: we need to reach out and show people how much better their lives can be when computers and technology are properly used in order to get them interested in better understanding the current and future capabilities of hardware and technology.
oh no...knowing what penyrn is or how X gpu is better than Y is not going to make most lives better. there is a illusion of over importance going on in this article. investment for retirement advice would be universal and important to life. health care, schools etc. gpu's are not anywhere in the same class of importance. it is a hobby.
read the blank slate by steven pinker.
people are not the same.
As a female reader, what is the reason for wanting more female readers? I'm one of the geekiest female going and yes, I do spend time reading the gossip columns as well as keep tabs on the tech industry. I do not work in a tech-related field. This is just one of my personal interests.
IMHO, the short answer on why no women readers: because we do other things. Notice that I spend time reading gossip columns. I also have a life. And, to be brutally honest, your articles are very technical and can be a bit long-winded. Are they good? It depends on who you want as your audience. I look at your site when I need to look for new things for gaming computers. Am I interested in clock multipliers, etc.? Not really. I just need your summary of why that part (motherboard, RAM, graphics card, CPU etc.) is the best there is on the market at the moment.
However, from what I understand, your audience are people who really want to know the nitty-gritty details of how you put each piece of equipment through its paces, then you should continue to do what you are doing.
I'm not going to touch the socialization theories that are being floated -- if that was true, then why am I even reading this site?
"I'm going to go ahead and point a finger at our failing effort at education in this country and put a good amount of burden there." You're joking, right? What country are you talking about where the females aren't just as welcome to take any class they desire? I'd assumed an American perspective, but perhaps you're writing on behalf of Yemen?
As RMSe17 said, why worry about it? While I'm sure there are gearhead sites that would welcome more readers, I don't think they lose sleep at night that the ratio of people reading about do-it-yourself timing chain replacement is mostly men.
Ditch the over-analysis and handwringing. Women and men are, and hopefully always will be, different. Doesn't mean they can't share the same interests, but the rate at which they do doesn't have to be the same. Meanwhile, I might enjoy picking out clothing or furnishings for their aesthetics, without getting deep into it as women are more apt to be.
But overanalysis is going to be the shortcoming, and and honestly, you're the last person here for this particular task. Male gamer techie nerds have begged you, Derek, to take a chill pill on describing the intricacies of the smelting process for making the metal for making the freaking mounting bracket of a new video card. Yet, undaunted, you go on for page after page of such trivia knowing full well most of your readers are more intested in price and performance.
You've knowingly thrown out suggestions for how to improve articles and reviews when it conflicts with a chance to "show you that I know stuff!!!!1" To cater to the audience you're asking about, you'd have to go even further in a direction you've been unwilling to move an inch on for years. How realistic is that?
Women (generalizing here) love tech. To USE. To be a black box to do what they want to do. To communicate, to create, etc. They don't love spending gobs of time digging into WHY it works for their own amusement, or to pass the time of day. Same as they love cars as transportation, not for engineering principles and maintainence hobbies.
If, for instance, you were willing to write a video card review and a SEPERATE article on the depths of the architecture, acknowledging that some people might not want to read blathering for four pages about every nook of the pixel pipeline, you'd be able to show the ability to connnect with your readers wants, instead of forcing them to wade through what you want to get to their interests. There's a reason girls don't typically flock to the "Excuse me, technically, the peanut is a legume" guy in school. If you're not happy with who the site appeals to, the change will have to go deeper than coughing up some "pink" primers.
WOW! A HOMERUN - GRANDSLAM OUT OF THE PARK!... When I 1st read your rant about this dude, I was like "man wtf this guy needs to chill and stay on topic...” then it HIT ME like my aforementioned opening line: This guy is writing to impress himself... he likes to show his "intelligence," through his articles, THEN probably rereads them, nodding at how intricate his articles are — Lol a true narcissist indeed.
Off Topic: Yes I do agree that a lot of the articles are waaay too in depth in analysis and specificity. Take the Nehalem article for example, very nice to know how L2 and L3 hierarchical-architecture ascend, tidbits about netburst and Quick path (etc...) work, but — eventually I found myself losing interest and wondering rather impatiently "WTF are the SPECS and performance numbers and comparisons going to come into light?!" Yes I like knowing those very in depth intricacies, BUT not when they add more filler to the meat of the argument. CUT the fat out and stick with the lean meat. Fat should be sparingly placed on the side IMO.
But alas here we are: another reader complaining about the direction of a site, and the editors viewing the readers as uninformed, naive or plain, dullard sheep that cannot truly appreciate the effort and preciseness of their "work." Blah blah go toot your own horns at home.
WE make up the revenue you get from advertising by OUR viewer ship. If you want to paint a brilliant masterpiece of an article, great do it on YOUR OWN TIME and not at our reading expense? What's so hard about understanding that? You work for US, not the other way around. If WE leave... you cease to have funding... WE, on the other hand, can find someone else who WILL pander/cater to what WE care about. Does my adding to this rant make any real diff? Probably not... BUT it's just a friendly reminder / critical critique of the direction you ought to be taking. Not a shove, but a nudge... please take heed and don't drown from basking in your own reflection...
Well said. All the women I know (many in tech) really don't care about HOW / WHY something works. Anandtech is for hardware - breadth AND depth. The good articles (buyers' guides/ monitor roundups etc.) are languishing while we see stuff like the bargain bin games roundup today. Anandtech 2008 feels like its going the way of CNN Headline News. I really don't want that to happen to my favorite hardware site.
And please please stop the barrage of PSU reviews.
Personally, I think it's the presentation of the article. Take for example game magazines. Most have really way-out there article reviews and reader responses. Sometimes I even wonder why they reviewed or responded to readers email/post mail/blog/etc the way they did. Certainly at some point you grow out of the smart-ass, elitist and know-it-all comments and try to treat your customers as a person...neither male nor female.
As for Anandtech itself, I think it's fine although it could be more balance for both sexes. I have friends and co-worker Engineers whom are female but don't necessary get excited when a new gadget comes out. So the comments "Oh, it's badass because I'm getting 50Mhz more out of my CPU in OC," or "Yes, the new driver increase my FPS by 10 in this game..." is not going to hit home anywhere for females. Personally, I would think older females would find it childish and unprofessional and move on to more "mature" sites. And again, it's not that they might feel the same way but the presentation is something to avoid, much like forums are to me.
She likes to spend her time watching "Golden Girls" and looking at MySpace and PerezHilton.com along with food channel.
She knows that the ATI Radeon 3850 has 800 processors in it (I've told her), but doesn't care.
If you had celebrity gossip, she'd check the page 5x per day.
Why chase after some target audience or cater to one group or another? I say, do what you do best, write technical articles, do lots of reviews. Do what you have done for all these years. There are male and female readers who like what you have been doing. If you try to change something, some will like you for that more, about the same number will like you less. It's just like in behavior: be who you are, don't try to attract anyone.
I'm sorry but you are soon about to lose a male reader. There seems to be a severe lack of quality hardware reviews lately. It feels like you are moving in a direction I just don't appreciate and it will end up causing me to look elsewhere. I've had enough million watt PSU reviews to last a lifetime. I understand you have to justify buying the fancy tester but it gets a little old. Most of us will never buy the psu's you review anyway. 95% of people have no need for them.
Maybe PC hardware is just getting to a point where even the slow stuff is more than enough to do the job and things are getting stagnant. I don't know. I do know that bargain bin games and games some random blogger are playing aren't really on my top picks of articles to read.
I can tell you that if you start focusing on women friendly stuff like pink cases and flower vase mods for your pc I'm outta here for good.
I couldn't agree more. This used to be my first choice for high quality reviews but there is less and less of that with each passing day. There are far fewer guides and comparisons, which are useful, and way to many single product articles that smell of payola.
I recently put together a new system and anandtech.com was of little use to me. To wit:
* The last budget buyers guide was November 8, 2007!
* The last mid-range buyers guide was October 15, 2007!
* The last high-end buyers guide was May 29, 2007!
Such stale articles might be acceptable on a site covering buggy whips, anvils and hammers but they are a pathetic jokes given your implied subject matter. Similarly, it is beyond belief that your last Linux article was July 1, 2005!
Any more de-balling of this site and I will erase all traces of it from my memory and bookmarks.
I find the guides of little use as they usually end up just rehashing the content of earlier tests, most of which I have read anyway. I'm sure they are useful though for those who simply want to find what to buy, not why.
I also wonder what happened to the month of Ubuntu article. Was supposedly started with 7.10, and might cover the upgrade to 8.04, here we will have 8.10 releasing within 2 months.
I honestly agree with this, which is sad because holy shit when Anandtech does a good article, it's usually in depth and an essential read; I just variety as of late is waning - okay, so I'm male but I honestly don't think it matters what gender reads the site - as long as any sexism is kept to a minimum, then there's no actual barrier to anyone reading the site - whether they're interested in the content is up to them or not, but it's essentially gender neutral.
Concentrate on more content, and more varied content, not worrying whether it should be made more friendly - although I do agree a few primers may be helpful to not alienate people - the readerbase of the front page, as far as I can tell, is pretty tech savvy and is happy to be challenged by technicial content, say inside CPU architecture articles.
Well, keep up the good work and make sure not to lose your way
First, absolutely create as many technical primers as you can. Make quick overviews for casual reference, and in depth examinations for more detail. Second, don't think about male vs female tech geeks, that's assumed, think about NORMAL, i.e. AVERAGE people. In general, women are process oriented, and men are goal oriented. Also, again in general, women don't have ego investment involved with what they know (knowledge is generally a goal) they have ego investment in thier ability to learn (the process). Focus more on the ubiquity of technology and why it's valuable to learn about it, not the specifications of the latest and greatest widgit.
Quote: "There is no fundamental reason women shouldn't be interested in our articles as both women and men are interested in: getting the most value out of their purchases, living a full and fulfilled life by taking advantage of technology, and understanding why they should care about technology and the issues surrounding it in today's world."
First off, and no offense, I don't really read AnandTech to help me live a more fulfilled life. True, I often rely on your site for hardware recommendations, etc., but mostly I read because I'm a geek, and I find the latest developments in the speed of $500 memory (way out of my budget) interesting. Face it: a good portion of stuff you review will never be purchased by a huge portion of your readership. Stuff like exotic cases, $3000 gaming notebooks, and just about anything next gen. As of late, you have been getting more into the consumer electronics market (like cameras), which I assume would be of more interest to ladies than stuff like CPU scheduling, which I find fascinating.
Quote: "I am looking into trying to write a series of introductions to topics like 3D graphics, CPU architecture, etc. so that we have references we can point people back to and to provide more people with easy access to the information that will help keep their eyes from glazing over when they read our latest GPU architecture article."
I would love that--and I think a lot of others would too. Give it your best.
Quote: " Like it or not, some places in our country still push men and women in to different roles"
Kind of like procreation? :) (I'm joking)
Quote: "It all comes down to our last point: presentation."
So you give a good presentation, circumnavigate social issues, and provide a good knowledge base--but you still have to get them here. I was introduced to your site by a friend (male) when I was looking to build my first computer--because I was interested in the kind of things that you talk about. I don't know any females that share that kind of interest. They are content to holler "tech support" and let me tell them what ever they need to know. My humble opinion.
Go ahead and try to get a bigger variety of readers, but be careful that you don't alienate your core readership. I would be disappointed if you lower your quality to appeal (less) to more people.
Jonathan
P.S. your comment task bar seems to be broken. the quote box pops up, but doesn't add the text.
I seem to remember an offensive use of an asian women on the title for 'unveiling the secrets' of Intel a while back.
Don't start whining about a lack of female readership when some of your blog posters are openly hostile to different opinions (*cough* masher *cough*). Such an environment is not conducive to outside or dissenting opinions(heaven forbid anyone be opposed to nuclear power here)
If, you create a space that engages on a range of tech issues, rather than ones that focus on forms of male fantasy and don't foster a competitive environment of centrist views, you may engage a wider readership.
I don't understand how gender is really relevant. This site has a particular focus. Few women read this site because it has nothing that interests them. If you write articles that more women will read, you'll be changing the focus of those articles and the purpose of this site. It will then be less interesting and and useful to your existing base.
"heaven forbid anyone be opposed to nuclear power here"
Being opposed to it is fine. But don't expect everyone to line up behind you, and don't pull out bogus arguments about nuclear power without expecting to get called on it. Masher isn't always right, but at least his arguments are logical and he's usually got a good grip on the facts.
This is exactly the problem, that the rating and reply system at anandtech reinforces centric and defensive thinking and discussion.
I am talking about attitude and demeanor on this site, and the general hostility towards alternative viewpoints. The problem with a tech site is that it mixes science with business, neither of which are renowned for their inclusiveness and tolerance for differing (albeit perhaps sometimes illogical and emotive) viewpoints.
This smug satisfaction is pervasive, and masher is one who drives that type of interaction. While it may be great trolling bait, it does little to encourage dialogue and just results in rating wars on comments.
"But don't expect everyone to line up behind you"
The lack of diversity of viewpoints was my issue, and you have demonstrated the very problem I am getting at.
Actually, I've usually found that both sides are usually well represented here.
I don't understand how one person replying to you is indicative of the entire AT forumbase disagreeing with you and hating you. Yes, when someone goes into a pro-apple rant I'm more than willing to pull out my flame thrower and have a feeling of "smug satisfaction." But maybe you just don't notice those who agree with you, and don't realize that on the internet NOTHING is "personal"
I'm all for the primers. I think having them available would mean worlds to people who want to understand and get the most out of your articles. Of course you can search for that info, but its best if you have the same authors writing the primer so you have the same terms and writing style to explain it. I would do this in a series of video's rather than text. Pointing out what the architectural charts/pics mean piece by piece would help us understand how to read the same diagrams in the other articles.
I'm pretty technology-literate, but even I sometimes stumble on a term or acronym here on Anandtech and have to resort to Google/Wikipedia for a definition.
I can't imagine any of the women I know trying to get through an article or news story here and not being utterly frustrated with all the "tech jargon". And it's become sort of a bad habit of tech writers not to at least write out the first use of a given acronym in an article.
Oh, and a bit off-topic, but can we get the RTPE (RealTime Pricing Engine) either fixed (again), or just removed if it's going to continue to be broken for months on end?
Anadtech takes its news feed from Daily Tech which runs a constant propaganda campaign of distortion and misinformation to deny the reality anthropogenic climate change. See the output of Michael Asher (http://www.dailytech.com/blogs/~masher)">http://www.dailytech.com/blogs/~masher) for an example of the one-sided, scientifically illiterate output that Daily Tech considers 'journalism'.
Maybe if Anandtech gained some journalistic integrity, the entire readership would increase, along with females? Just a thought.
Anadtech takes its news feed from Daily Tech which runs a constant propaganda campaign of distortion and misinformation to support the religion of Anthropogenic Climate Change. See the output of Jason Mick (http://www.dailytech.com/blogs/~jasonmick)">http://www.dailytech.com/blogs/~jasonmick) for an example of the one-sided, scientifically illiterate wack jobs that Daily Tech considers 'journalism'.
Maybe if Anandtech gained some journalistic integrity, the entire readership would increase, along with females? Just a thought.
Sorry, Jason! But you REALLY need to get a better class of acolyte!
It seems that every piece of hardware reviewed, in the end, comes back to gaming. As that is where the site originated, not necessarily a bad thing, but can turn off those who have no interest in gaming beyond Solitaire. Even devices which make no pretension of competing with modern mid-to-high end hardware (such as the original Eee) are in some ways held up as deficient ("Picture state of the art from 1999"). Perhaps for targeting a different dynamic you need an author or editor who is less into the pure technical aspects and more into the end uses of the technology.
Having previously helped friends and relatives (both male and female) shop for computers and cameras, they have generally not been interested in how an item does what it does, but the end result, i.e. "I want a camera that can take good pictures in clubs" or "I want a laptop that I can do work for online courses for the next 4 years". Frankly, they often are not looking to educate themselves, but simply to be told what the best option for them is.
expecting people to know computers like us enthusiasts is like asking people to know how to repair a car in order to get a drivers license. We may not like it that some of our friends/relatives are computer illiterate but don't believe that they don't think the same way about us and the field that they excel at. C'est la vie
You said "That last bit is key: we need to reach out and show people how much better their lives can be when computers and technology are properly used in order to get them interested in better understanding the current and future capabilities of hardware and technology."
So take a look around at what women like, and show them how it can be better with your help, your knowledge, which is in your articles. For example my fiance loves facebook, myspace, instant messaging, text messaging, just plain communicating in so many ways. If you showed her a wonderful new technology that helped her do it better, faster, easier, and maybe even prettier (please don't flame me) she would probably love it.
Well i think there is a difference here regarding the way i and my pals and our female friends and companion think about technology. Me and my friends can sit here and read in order to be able to build a computer with a whole lot of Whomp in it because we want to use word on a computer with a whole lot of Whomp. (refer to this as the "my e-penis is bigger then yours"-argument)
Our female companions dont cara at all about the Whomp factor they want word to work correctly.
Where often we guys get bogged down in why things work faster on A then on B and how we can make A actually beat B in some tests the girs say "give me either as long as it suits my needs".
Example - I just went out and bought my fiancee (yes im a geek and Im engaged [no she isn't sane]) a MP4-player. I go out on the net and compare codecs, formats, communication interfaces, memory space and finally decides to buy a 32GB Creative Zen well knowing that i wil have to fiddle with the formats to get the fims playing. I was drooling over the tech spec. of this thing and all she said was "WOW now I have something to watch when on all those booring flights!" She was really happy but not a bit interested in why it worked just that she would be entertained during long and booring flights.
When it comes to things like RAID setups GPUs or Memory freqenzies (sic) offcource there are girls/women who are interested for the same reason as i am. But mostly they will only get interested if it improves their lifes in one way or another. Also if it comes to the point where they realize that a gadget WILL improve their life why in the world would they spend 200+ hours reading up on the basics needed to understand what the whitepapers say when they can ask me, go to the gym for a work out and get a nice spreadsheet with pros and cons presented when they get back???
Oh well my 2 cents is to say that there is no diffrence in capability between sexes, races (is it PC to call it so I am not in the know pls adit if U want/need to) or social belongings its just that were just not interested in the same things and this geek-interest has a skewed populance-base.
By "readers", do you mean readers of the AT main page articles? In this case, how you know if a particular reader is female or male, or are you making assumptions.
Or do you mean AT forum members? I'm a female, there are various other female members, and several of the forum mods are female. And btw, it doesn't help when I get mistakenly referred to as a male not infrequently, despite a clearly female avatar and screenname.
Perhaps guys are pre-inclined to assume that only males are interested in PC hardware?
This >here< is the very definition of nerd porn.
Asking why women don't visit hardware sites is like paying women for posing with guns... something just feels creepy...
quote: "And btw, it doesn't help when I get mistakenly referred to as a male not infrequently, despite a clearly female avatar and screenname."
This remides me of the sig line "This is the internet: where the men are men, the women are men, and the children are FBI agents."
As far as the topic of the article, it's a far more widespread "problem" (for lack of a better word) than just tech sites. Physics, engineering, compsci, and mathematics departments all over the world see the same skewed statistics. It's not uncommon to have as few as 10% female staff/students, and sometimes even lower.
It not a fundamental "wiring" issue, since it's a much more even split in other technical/analytical areas such as chemistry or biology. Is more just a self-perpetuating societal bias that decrees that physics etc are "mens jobs". Most technical subjects require some degree of knowledge before they become interesting or even comprehensible - imagine someone reading one of your graphics cards articles without an understanding of what RAM is. So the societal pressure pushing females away from computer-related things means that many simply don't have the foundation needed to find things like the self-resetting domino logic in the Northwood ALU fascinating.
OK, bad example, but you get the idea.
As far as the solution goes, there's no magic bullet. There's little that you as a single site can do to increase the base of people with sufficient knowledge. Sure, you can publish some introductory articles, but that's only going to help people who are coming to the site already. One thing you could do would be to chat with the "women in science" or similar groups at your local university. They have been looking at this issue for years, have a much better understanding of the issues involved, and can probably give you some good pointers.
> It not a fundamental "wiring" issue, since it's a much more
> even split in other technical/analytical areas such as
> chemistry or biology.
Actually, that's the perfect illustration that there *IS* a wiring issue, because it illustrates the gradient that we see as we move from a "softer" science to a more abstract, "harder" sciences. This so-called "wiring" has been discussed in the psychological and neuroscience communities for a long time, and it's a fairly well-established thing.
Biology is not chemistry and it's certainly not physics. While this is often expressed in the form of bio-vs-chem-vs-physics jokes, physics *IS* more abstract and "pure" (in terms of everything being tidily enclosed in a purely mathematical world) than chemistry, which, in turn, is much more abstract than biology. In biology, you spend half your time memorizing various details like what this gene does or what that body part is. In physics (especially the higher-level theoretical physics), you spend almost all of your time with various equations. The ratio gets progressively more unbalanced as you move from bio (where in many places, females are the majority) to chemistry (where males are often the majority, but usually only by slim margins), to physics (at least in the "hard" theoretical physics, males are strongly dominant; in the "softer" physics like biophysics, geophysics, etc., the ratios resemble those of chemistry), to mathematics and computer science, where the percentage of women is very often less than 5%.
We’ve updated our terms. By continuing to use the site and/or by logging into your account, you agree to the Site’s updated Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.
122 Comments
Back to Article
web2dot0 - Friday, September 12, 2008 - link
Let's face it,Girls aren't into spending $10000 on a OC Dual Quad-Core system with 16GB and dual 30" monitors, Quad SLI OK?
Even the geeky girls I knew from school were never interested in these things. They like science and math and computers, but not
to this extent.
Female readers are more interested in technologies that impacts them in everyday life.
Females != Males .... pretty simple logic.
Jack69 - Thursday, September 11, 2008 - link
Perhaps you should start a section on quilting and another on cookie recipe's. Also, if you'd test hair color products you'd have all the women followers you want!Jack69 - Thursday, September 11, 2008 - link
Perhaps you should start a section on quilting and another on cookie recipe's. Also, if you'd test hair color products you'd have all the women followers you want!Jono Von Ono - Monday, September 8, 2008 - link
You stated the cause of the problem while commenting on the problem its self: "I'm not a woman, and we don't have any on staff." I know plenty of "geeky" women and think they would be interested in technology related articles. But you should consider bringing a female onto your staff to get some direction on how to report in a way that woman would want to read it.Choppedliver - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - link
Also,Women who like geeky tech stuff, are a small cross section of the population. They are a small cross section of your readership. Amazing how that works.
I would guess they are represented here in a proportion equal to that of the general population of geeky tech loving women.
You don't need to try and woo them, they are already here.
AussieMate - Monday, September 8, 2008 - link
I have never visited the vast land of the US but I expect that if you walk into a magazine store anywhere in the US the experience will be much the same as here in Australia."Mens' magazines" covering a wide range of interests clearly separate from "womens' mags" covering sweet nothing in the main (and the least useful parameter being the date of publication).I work among non-IT professionals but while my male colleagues often enjoy tinkering in IT my female colleagues are generally numb to the experience.
Maybe there is some hard-wiring...
NT78stonewobble - Monday, September 8, 2008 - link
I do think that the women really interested in the inner workings will or allready visit this site.However among women there is generally a lesser interest in technical subjects compaired to men atleast in my experience.
What I think you could do to appeal to someone lesser interested in the technical aspekts and still offer them more knowledge on the subject could be the following:
1. Whole PC reviews. Alot of people doesn't wan't to go through the hazzle to put together their pc by themselves. Some round ups with different manufacturers, their offerings and just some pointers on what to go for or what to avoid when buying.
2. Put a bit more focus into "softer" aspects of a product like design and ease of use.
3. Personally I really liked the DIY home theater articles that anand was doing. But how put something about how far regular people can go with ease and the right standard hardware and hifi
Angilion - Monday, September 8, 2008 - link
If you start trying to create some sort of blanket appeal to women, you will fail. This is because there isn't really any such thing as "women" or "men". We're all trained to believe in whatever collections of stereotypes are popular at the time. They change over time, but the bottom line is still acting as though there were only two individuals on Earth, named "men" and "women". It's always been that way and it has never been seriously challenged. If anyone mentions feminism at this point, they need to spend some time looking at real feminism. It's just an attempt to repackage traditional sexist stereotyping in a way that's sexist against male people only. It's even more strongly geared towards biologicial groupthink than the traditional stereotyping. The required first step in everything feminist is to define and judge people by sex - you can't have an ideology that is about female people without defining everyone to "female" or "other".You will alienate some of your existing readers. You might, just might, get an increase in the percentage of your readers who are female, but probably only as a result of more men than women leaving. I think you'll probably end up with less women overall. Women who are interested in the detailed workings of technical (or mechanical) things tend to be independent-minded and therefore tend to dislike being pigeonholed into anyone's idea of "what women like". If they listened to that sort of thing, they wouldn't be here in the first place.
If you want to appeal to a larger/wider audience, as apposed to being concerned about what type of genitals you think your readers have, I have a suggestion:
I used to teach a course on PC hardware. I spent a great deal of time writing the entire course from scratch, from initial proposals to accompanying course notes that were not far from being a book (103 pages of A4), which I kept constantly updated so my students could use it as a reference guide for at least a little while after the course. I was a bit idealistic and too inexperienced to realise how much work I was making for myself. I adopted a sort of "Russian doll" approach to it all, with subjects explained in progressively greater degrees of complexity. The "outer" explanation was as simple and non-technical as possible while remaining useful to someone seeking enough of an understanding of PC hardware to choose components and build a PC (the basic purpose of the course). Students who wanted more detailed knowledge could go on to the next "layer" if they wanted to.
Using this approach, I was reasonably successful in teaching people with a variety of degrees of interest, from those who wanted a functional understanding and no more to those who were budding geeks who could be teaching me some things in the future.
That approach might broaden the appeal of your site and it would be a lot wasier to implement on a website than in a classroom.
I was under pressure to discriminate against men, as that was college policy. It was thought that discrminating against men would attract more women. It worked - when I left, they'd managed to get the ratio of women to men in the college as a whole up to nearly 2 to 1. So maybe you could figure out a way to do that here, if a higher proportion of women really is what you want.
longtimereader - Sunday, September 7, 2008 - link
Ok, the only possible reason for you to be concerned about female readership is for more advertising dollars. Shame on you!I have noticed a steady decline of quality tech articles over the past year or two. Now I see your true motivation. You no longer care about providing the truth about the tech industry as you see it.
Please do us all a favor and rename anantech to anandblog or something more appealing to women? Anand's boutique?
I do not think I will be coming back to your site after a decade of readership. Bye!
billythefisherman - Saturday, September 6, 2008 - link
Stop talking about cpu's, motherboard chipsets and hard drives and start an auction house selling shoes and hand bags.gloriaw - Saturday, September 6, 2008 - link
Comments like this are so frequent in discussions of this nature that it proves my point effortlessly. All women, and even many men I know, find this drivel a waste of time and energy. Men tend to overlook it easier. Women tend to go somewhere else to avoid it.~G~
v12v12 - Sunday, September 7, 2008 - link
Just whom are you referring to, may I ask?gloriaw - Saturday, September 6, 2008 - link
I think it's great that you're even asking such a question. You must be overwhelmed by the range of responses from profoundly asinine to truly insightful, because of the tremendous draw this subject causes.I have seen and experienced it all, from being welcome as a rare novelty to passive-aggressive rejection, and outright hostility. We really need to change the preconceived notion of a geek stereotype. Maybe with time, and as more geek women become more vocal, this will fade.
If you want to draw more women to your site, I don't recommend changing your content. You have a certain readership because of your content, and I think you need to be true to the people you already draw.
The big factor which makes a site more female-geek friendly is to remove the "asshole factor". Delete crappy, shallow-minded comments. Moderate your site away from discussion which is not related to the material, and keep it asshole-free.
This comment alone will cause both great and shitty responses, I am certain. Women don't want to spend the time or energy wading through idiocy. We face enough idiots on a daily basis, everywhere we go, believe me. We want useful facts, good examples, and no reflection of ego in the work or related comments that follow.
Hope this helps.
~G~
kyriel - Sunday, September 7, 2008 - link
I'm a woman who has been involved in tech as a career since 1990 and most definitely qualify as a geek. I also have seen the whole range of reactions. From being unusually popular at cisco and gaming conventions (a girl who games?? COOL!! Marry me now!!) to having users flatly refuse to allow me to touch their PC because no girl could possibly know how to fix a computer. It used to be very annoying. Now I mostly shrug it off. The asshole factor on tech sites is a definite factor for me. While I don't necessarily agree with censoring posts finding a way to reduce the number those asshole type posts would mean retaining me as a reader/participant in a discussion for a longer period of time. I think most technical oriented women tend to be very interested in exchange of ideas. We want to understand all the viewpoints even if we don't agree with them. When we run into those asshole posts it pulls us out of that heady discussion zone back to the realities we have to face in our day to day world to participate in our chosen profession. That's a definite turn off. A place where that abrupt separation occurs on a frequent basis will soon get dropped from the read list.I would recommend that you pick up a female writer. Not because I think you should have a female on staff but because I think the experience of reading tech written by a woman and seeing the ways in which your readership react to that would help you find the answers you seek. You wouldn't necessarily need to create a regular position for this. As a suggestion why don't you invite some freelance submissions from women. Alternatively you could come up with a couple of different article ideas and hold a contest for women. Reading a bunch of submissions from women on the same topic would you give you a range of women's reactions to study and learn from.
I think the introductory articles are a good idea. Unfortunately they go out of date so quickly it takes a lot of work to maintain a good introductory section. A wiki with an approved group of maintainers might work better. The gloassary mentioned by one of the others is an excellent idea and also easier to maintain.
The one thing I don't think you should do is change the focus of your site or "soften" the tech articles for easier reading. You built your reputation on being a review site for geeks. It's why your readers are here. If you change that you will probably lose more readers than you gain. In fact, I have noticed a general decrease in quality tech articles here as well as some of the other geeky hardware review sites. I have no direct evidence of this but it seems like there is a longer gap between product releases and quality reviews than there used to be. This may be the fault of manufacturers being slower to get out review samples rather than a reflection on the tech sites and their writers. It also seems like their are more articles coming out that aren't really complete. Once again this is a trend across all tech sites. If anything Anandtech is a little better about that than most.
Hope this gives you some food for thought.
v12v12 - Saturday, September 6, 2008 - link
Ah yes... the stereotypical (a-typical) anti-male rhetoric these days that nearly all loud-mouthed "fems" banter and blather about: The men of "today" are presented as dullards, the goofy-loveable-nitwit, a "whatever you say dear" pussy etc. While women are presented as: always-right, in control, wearing-the-pants in the TV-sitcom household etc.Come on, please... for every negative vice that women can drum up about men, they themselves have the same or equally comparable negative connotations associated with their gender. I'm sick of these posts, painting *all* men as assholes, egoist, bullies etc... sorry honey but WOMEN are just as mean (if you have any experience as true "adult" you'd know this socially accepted fact of life), greedy, materialistic (much more so than men), conniving, heartless... blah blah. The whole notion of "if women were in charge," is bullocks, rubbish and pure bias drivel. If women were in charge they'd be just as cruel and heartless as their male counterparts. It's already been demonstrated in countless psychological studies. You want links? Google the shit for yourself, but please get off your nonsensical "women are better" tantrum.
This isn't some anti-female rant, shit my mom, her best friends (females), are true shining examples of adult women that can hold a serious job position, run a household, love their husbands and while raising children Vs most of you fake-fems out there shopping till you drop, reading endless gossip magazines, sport fucking the next hot guy in the city... Oh and the ever increasing divorce rates. For a man to get a divorce, he's marked, but for a woman it's "liberating," nonsense again. WOMEN are the reason the divorce rates in this nation are over +50% b/c they are the extreme predominant filers. What ever happened to "through better or worse," oh I guess that's cliche now that women are nearly "equal" and so forth. Lets face it, women don't need anymore this or that, they have everything they want: equal rights, respect in their fields (if you are a top performer), pay (that whole $.76/$1 is bullshit, women choose lower paying fields and have been proven to NOT put up much of a fight when it comes to salary negotiations - google it)... they only main reason men don't "like" and or want women infiltrating every enclave of "our" hobbies is b/c women have that 1 HUGE advantage over men, which they use oh so cunningly well: Women control SEX and SEX controls men innately.
When a girl shows up men start changing their tone; some carry on as if she's just another dude, and most start pandering to her for attention b/c it's what we're programmed to do. There's always going to be a problem when the all boys club becomes, shall I say, "infected" by the presence of a female. If you'll notice, all the negative talk in reference to men's hobbies and fields of choice are done strictly by women. Men - WE DON'T CARE about all the ego and blah blah, that's how WE are and how we interact with one another. Most women don't understand this, and thus paint a portrait of purely hostility. Men and women are different, and those differences are what make us unique and interesting. I'm tired of hearing about how men's behavior is something negatively connoted, while women's behavior is supposedly non-offensive, communal, accepting, warm and friendly... That is HARDLY the case, women are just as, if not MORE competitive with one another than men are, but since it's more subtle and less understood by men and hell, women themselves, they are painted as "harmless," and positive. 100% BULLOCKS! Women aren't bad, and should not be treated as such, but have you ever noticed that the stereotypical fem screaming about being excluded from all-male clubs/groups, yet let a man try and "invade" or infiltrate a women's group and all hell breaks loose. Women are always trying to be a part of the boy's club, while men are quite the opposite... WHY is that? B/c most things that interest women - men simply have little, to no interest - aside from the few stereotypically held notions that such hobbies/activities like: cooking, arts and crafts (sewing, knitting etc.), shopping are *only* for women: Such a sad state of affairs in this society that men are painted to be unfaithful, bullying, clueless/witless dogs, while women are (or paint themselves as) angels just looking to be accepted. lmfao get out and get a life people and observe for yourselves: women behave just as negatively as men>.< Google the damn studies if you really have no common sense to know this...
The last thing AT needs is to be "Title-9'ing" themselves into "including" or pandering to so-called "women's interest." If women are interested in tech, let them come and read like everyone else. Tech is tech; it's neutrally based and therefore ANYONE with a brain and intelligence enough to SEARCH OUT and read about it, is welcomed at their own prerogative. There's no special men's-only disclaimer regarding tech... Forums are a diff matter, it's a man's territory, so you're either going to play the game as WE play, adapt and or DEAL with it and grow some thick skin. Geesh I'm sick of the faux double-standard. Pander to *READERS* not genders. The nerve of you Derek... stop the bias please. Good day all.
***And if any women or men find yourselves offended by this little rant, ask yourselves WHY – YOU - are, I'm certainly not.*** Good people are good people: men and women. Assholes/bitches are too: men and women.***
Choppedliver - Sunday, September 7, 2008 - link
I actually agreed with most of your points.Derek, you sound like a giant p*ssy. You also seem like you like to hear yourself talk because you have such a high opinion of yourself, that you want everyone else to also.
Cater to readers of technology, not genders.
Soon as this thread is done, Im done with AT, and Ive been reading every day since oh, 1999 I think, maybe 2000. Can't recall exactly.
0roo0roo - Saturday, September 6, 2008 - link
the funny thing is when people try to have it both ways. first they say the sexes are equal in every way. but they are oddly quick to take credit for things their sex is superior at, you see this when things like superior "multitasking" by women are cited.Pixy - Friday, September 5, 2008 - link
They are probably reading from Tomshardware, they have some pretty good articles there.0roo0roo - Saturday, September 6, 2008 - link
i wouldn't say that, toms got a bad habit of splitting articles into a thousand pages. i find it so tiresome i rarely bother reading an article on that site anymore, too much trouble. they drove me away.moiaujapon - Friday, September 5, 2008 - link
Hey mate - glad to know you're not too diluted, even if perhaps you remain a bit deluded. ;) (yep - slow day here)Jaramin - Friday, September 5, 2008 - link
Well, reading most comments left me with the impression that either a majority of the reader base is a lot more demeaning to women than I thought, or that it is overly vocal. Comments like "add some pink", "open a gossip section", "review shoes"...come on.And to those who think the question of female readership is moot, sucks
On with the suggestions (in no particular order):
1. Dump DailyTech. Since dailytech made it's entry, quality (and quantity) of content has been on the decline. It feels like if you're relying on it, or consider it to be an integral part of your content. Clicking on a dailytech link sends you to a small article with tons of comments, most of which are garbage (which you end up reading since they're as proeminently displayed as the article itself). Garbage attracts flies. As a less radical proposal, hide the comments under a "see comments" link.
2. Get female writers. If something eludes you in writing style, presentation and what not, it'll be hard to articulate it with concepts. Get female writers, let them do their thing, and you'll get a feel of the difference it makes.
3. Introduction material : very good idea. As far as I'm concerned, that's educational material, and educational material is always good.
4. You were talking about how technology isn't just something fun, it's something important. It changes our lives, it shapes the future, society, the way we live. I totally agree. I don't think it's always for good though. Certainly some implements of technology we could have done without. Why not give a bit more space to these issues? When some new hardware gets out, how is it going to affect us? What processes are involved in it's manufacturing? Who are the people, the workers behind it (and not just the brains)? Hardware has history, and it's as much a part of it than it's specs. Sometimes you seem to touch the subject (ex: the bad advertising over the 140w Phenoms), don't just touch it, explore it. If anything, women are more sensitive to how people are affected by IT than men, and that's a good thing, 'cause it seems to me we often miss the big picture.
5. Remove the tabs on the website which only have outdated content. Or update them, fill them! Linux and Guides come to mind. New readership tend to explore a website. If you want to expand your female readership, well, that means new readership! And when they see sections with only outdated content, it'll give them a bad impression.
Jaramin - Friday, September 5, 2008 - link
Argh, no edit button!Correction : "And to those who think the question of female readership is moot, it sucks that you haven't realized social space is shared."
I'll add that about every comment on so called natural differences includes a macho, demeaning, if not downright insulting, picturing of women. Just read the post before mine! It's insane! Stuff like this should simply get modded down :
"There's no better way to get a woman to stop talking then to bring up technical computer topics. They start talking about some incredibly inane topic about what so and so said, about someone else, and you casually bring up the splendid new E7200 processor from Intel and see the reaction. Contempt and confusion are generally not far away."
Wellsoul2 - Friday, September 5, 2008 - link
Most techs have been male in the past. Although that's changed a
bit the gadget heads are mostly male, not to mention gamers.
It's accurate to say males have better spatial skills and women
have verbal skill advantages (statisticly).
Some of it is cultural but I'd still bet you'd have more women in
book clubs and more men playing video games without it.
TA152H - Friday, September 5, 2008 - link
You can't really believe all the liberal nonsense you've been brainwashed to believe.It's simple, women, as a rule, aren't interested in this stuff as much as men are. You can try your cutesy, liberal nonsense all you want, but it's how people are made. There will always be individuals who go against the trend, but clearly genders are different, and only a fool can't see the obvious.
If you still don't get it, let's look at it totally scientifically. Men and women are clearly made differently, nature would be remiss if it didn't make each one specialized in certain behaviors. Making them clones would be less efficient, and if you look at many different animals, behavior differences between males and females are very common. It's just more efficient, and nature kills inefficiency.
My personal experience is much the same. There's no better way to get a woman to stop talking then to bring up technical computer topics. They start talking about some incredibly inane topic about what so and so said, about someone else, and you casually bring up the splendid new E7200 processor from Intel and see the reaction. Contempt and confusion are generally not far away.
Also, it's simply fact that men's and women's brains are different, and it's a fact that hormones play a role in behavior. So what possible reason could anyone say that gender differences aren't any part of it? You've been brainwashed by the media, and you've heard nonsense so many times, you're believing it without thinking about it.
Men and women are different. Nature would have it no other way, despite the liberal media. It's something you're just going to have to accept, and once you do, you'll appreciate it more. Who would want to date another man (well a gay, of course, but you know what I mean).
Jim Bancroft - Friday, September 5, 2008 - link
I know that when I read Anandtech's motherboard or CPU articles (say) I'm often dazzled by their technical depth...as well as frequently bufuddled. Try as I can there are times I'm unable to make sense of the discussion regarding north bridges and memory controllers-- and I've taken the intro to computer architecture course as part of my major at a California State Univ. campus. No great shakes, admittedly, but if I can't follow a general purpose article on the topic there may be a need for backgrounders.As to the lack of gender balance in Anandtech's readership, I think Derek makes good points about societal leanings and pigeonholing in school. Not enough girls are encouraged in math and science and this is a consequence. That said, introductory articles on the site's bread-and-butter topics would be a big help for the sisterhood, and topics they might find especially appealing could get their foot in the door; cell phone reviews, "casual game" specs included in hardware benchmarks, digital photography FAQS, and how-tos...Wii Fit tips....you get the idea. Computer cases with unique designs.
Someone giving the site a first sniff might feel unsteady if the splash page is covered with articles about 45nm processes and how to freon cool your overclocked CPU. A mix of right and left-brain articles would soothe nerves.
Yahma - Friday, September 5, 2008 - link
Why don't you accept the fact that the majority of women are not interested in grafix cards and 1000W PSU's, or the latest quad-core CPU. My girlfriend, and all her female friends could care less about Anandtech. They read E-Online and other celebrity gossip sites, they watch Sex in the City and Desperate Housewives. They live for emotional stimulation, and a review of a 1000W PSU is not going to give them that.Stop trying to force your idea that women should like the same things men like. We are different, and believe it or not, all my female friends do not feel like society is forcing them to like Celebrity Gossip and drama... They just do. I'll bet the celebrity gossip sites have the same problem in reverse... most of their readership is predominately female. Do you think they should start reviewing PC hardware to attract more males?
Breeg - Friday, September 5, 2008 - link
Perhaps make the site not about computer hardware.kevon27 - Friday, September 5, 2008 - link
"speaking with a lisp". Why SSSpoil a good thing? Nothing is better than having a bunch of SSSweaty geeky menz, all just cumming together in private little roomsss, talking about their feelingsss... Umm, Umm, Ummm.. This is getting my RAM hot!!!.Keep the fishes out.. Let them goto Oprah.com or something...
Ohhh, my song is on the radio... 'IT'SS RAINING MEN'
kreacher - Friday, September 5, 2008 - link
"I utterly reject the idea that women can't understand the material we cover."They're not interested in the material you cover.
LeftSide - Thursday, September 4, 2008 - link
I think a wiki like system would really help things here. I am always interested in new technology, but sometimes can't help but get lost in all the acronyms.It could be like the advertising systems on many sites that pops up a little message, then you could click on it for a more detailed explanation. If done right it would also be retroactive, working in all previous articles, and would need no additional work when writing new articles. You could have 3 levels of explanation on a subject beginner, intermediate and advanced.
My 2 cents...
jasonjm - Thursday, September 4, 2008 - link
is that women are retarded when it comes to logic, and especially retarded with computer logic.so in order to get more female readers you should do the following
1) remove all objective performance measurements. All performance measurements should be relative to zip codes (IE this processor is as fast as the average processor in the 90210 zip code).
2) every item has to have at least one luxury brand naming on it, IE Chanel dual channel DDR or maybe the hardware should just come with gucci accessories,
3) the ideal peace of hardware for your women readers is probably one that is purchased, installed, and the end produced by the labor of a man. For example "baby, my taxes aren't done, can you like get some computer and programs and do my taxes" is how your average female reader would approach the anandtech website. So in retrospect, your site shouldnt actually discuss hardware at all. Your website should discuss how to find men who will buy computers who will then use those computers to do all the work for your women readers.
the end.
wvh - Thursday, September 4, 2008 - link
I don't know where you live, but here there are fewer women in IT, and even those few like to do something else in their spare time than reading more about technical topics. I also think women rather use hardware for other things than merely analysing it and taking it apart, i.e. technology isn't a goal but a means -- she would rather chat with her friends about/with her cool new laptop than come on anandtech with an indepth vivisectional rapport.As for increasing female membership... If they don't want to, you can't make them. Seeing as it's a free, well moderated website, really the only thing holding anybody back is interest.
The funny thing is that I can't imagine websites about fashion, baby clothes, knitting or whatever complaining about attracting more men. I don't see the motivation for having perfect 50%/50% reader subscription. It doesn't make sense to diversify far beyond technical topics on a technical website such as anandtech, and there are limits as to how far you can "colour" scientific news to attract a wider audience.
Obviously I don't object to larger female participation, but I think that a technological website should first and foremost cater to people (anyone) interested in technology instead of taking the eyes of the ball and start specifically targetting women, gays, minorities, religions or any "focus group" irrelevant to science and technology.
croc - Thursday, September 4, 2008 - link
"But ... I'm not a woman, and we don't have any on staff. Of course, we all know women."Could this be a big part of the problem?
Choppedliver - Thursday, September 4, 2008 - link
-This article was stupid and pointless and you are going to lose readers because of it.-Men and women are different and if you try to add stuff that makes it interesting to women, you will most likely drive the men off, which is the majority of your readership.
-YOU CANNOT BE ALL THINGS TO ALL PEOPLE.
Foxy1 - Thursday, September 4, 2008 - link
I believe the only way to increase female readership is by posting pictures of the AT editor ball-room dancing.Nfarce - Thursday, September 4, 2008 - link
This OpEd could have easily been reduced in half with editing. Sheesh! Anyway, questioning why more women aren't involved with AnandTech (or other tech sites) because they are 'puter users too is like questioning why men aren't involved with more sites like the FineLiving.com and MarthaStewart.com because they also eat food and sleep in beds and wear clothes. For men, we don't care how it's done, who makes what, what colors and food ingredients go together, and other things - give us food and clothes and a nice comfortable sheet set and we're all good.The same can be said for women who drive cars and don't care about mechanic's and auto enthusiast blogs. Sure they do their homework on new car purchases, but you will not see many of them go to Infinity G35 forums looking for an EPROM chip, exhaust, suspension, and brake upgrades. Give me a break!
I'm sure the vast majority of women feel the same way about computer technology. And regarding the gender gap and society roles for women, my sister for example was way better in math than I was in grade school and in college, but I had an interest in tech and she did not. So spare that apologist route of "society" being a cause.
I get so sick and tired of political correctness run amok in this nation (and the Western world in general) and worrying about what group is not a part of this group and that group and what not. Why can't we just realize that men and women are not the same, do not share the same interests (for the most part), and both sexes do not want this kind of stuff shoved down their throats, which is what makes us men and women to begin with.
Bluepig - Thursday, September 4, 2008 - link
Why don't we have more women, or homosexuals, or Church members, or... How about this cry: Why don’t we focus on technology?Why don't we just stick to technologically relevant issues, product reviews, and leave the politically correct rhetoric to the special interest groups for which they lobby?
If I have to suffer having one more diversity day or mandatory adaptation crammed into my brain, at least one will be forced out my ass as I am full to the brim.
Don't get me wrong, I love AnandTech when it focuses on its strengths, but if it becomes a sounding board for Leftist Socialist ideology or a Religious Right Passion Play, then I am out of here. Those topics and arguments are better reserved for the political and social blogs or posting boards.
mindless1 - Thursday, September 4, 2008 - link
The answer is simple, women are inherantly and culturally inclined more towards feelings, social interactions, and men more towards control of physical objects like a computer and tweaking things (through upgrades). This certainly doesn't apply to everyone out there and that's why you don't see a 100%:0% ratio.Schnoogs - Thursday, September 4, 2008 - link
Is the politically correct police going to shut this place down?smokenjoe - Thursday, September 4, 2008 - link
I am a man in a woman dominated field- nursing. If anything it is even more lopsided than IT. I also got my GF and a few other women into sportbikes. One thing men go to sites like this for diffrent reasons tham just simple info- and one of the reasons women dont. Men do it because it is part of "what men do" A big part of that is learned before they hit 10 years old. As a male nurse I almost have a script of acceptable behaviours markadly diffrent from a girl. Unless you are willing to brush off the "tech/geek" site mentality you wont get a lot of women. Bringing the benifits home will help especaly if you can bring some socal connection.I think there are only very tiny real diffrences in learning but huge socal baggage. Funny all the male nurses on my unit are interested in computers the women dont seem to care in the least as long as it works and the girls have even said it is a 'guy thing'.
PS I got into nursing due to bad local economy.
DanD85 - Thursday, September 4, 2008 - link
Come on! I have to say that most gender-related debate sucks and this one doesn't look any better.About the pinky thingy. I don't think it's a joke at all. Why so serious? Why don't you go look at those women's things to see what is the main color scheme? What's wrong with pink? As most women I know like pink and I see no problem with that. You made it like pink degrade your intelligent and that really pissed me off.
As I've said you have to take the majority into consideration. There's always exceptions but that doesn't represent the big picture. Of course there're smart, blonde, long-legged, tech-savvy women out there. But it's pretty rare to find one. So can you please put this stupid argument to rest and start making AT a better place for tech-savvy or geeks to educate themselves. That should be a better thing to do rather than wasting time for this.
Good day to you all,
Choppedliver - Thursday, September 4, 2008 - link
I had to chime in here... this is the dumbest article ever written on Anandtech.If a site on women's shoes wanted to get me to read it, they would have to write computer geek stuff. Focus on your target material, and don't worry about whether the people reading it have a f'in penis or vagina. Jesus Man is this April Fools day?
Some stuff is naturally more appealing to a certain gender. You aren't going to change that, and you shouldn't be trying. Nor should you be putting the blame on anyone or anything. It's just the way it is.
God this made my stomach turn. The death of Anandtech is near. I have been a reader for as long as I can remember and now I think it's time to look somewhere else.
Choppedliver - Thursday, September 4, 2008 - link
I had to chime in here... this is the dumbest article ever written on Anandtech.If a site on women's shoes wanted to get me to read it, they would have to write computer geek stuff. Focus on your target material, and don't worry about whether the people reading it have a f'in penis or vagina. Jesus Man is this April Fools day?
Some stuff is naturally more appealing to a certain gender. You aren't going to change that, and you shouldn't be trying. Nor should you be putting the blame on anyone or anything. It's just the way it is.
God this made my stomach turn. The death of Anandtech is near. I have been a reader for as long as I can remember and now I think it's time to look somewhere else.
Justin Case - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
Fire the guy doing camera reviews, hire the first woman you come across. You'll instantly inject a feminine POV into the site and the articles can't possibly be any worse.contra26 - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
1) I am a girl. I think computers and hardware are really cool. I want an X58 mobo soon. Software and chat rooms are boring.2) I work as a LAN admin for a civil engineering firm. It is very competitive and mostly male. They are always trying to bash each other with numbers and lame stats. That same thing happens on tech boards all the time. I find it pointless and stop paying attention to them.
3) Every time a guy realizes I can put together a computer, they are VERY surprised. I am a blonde haired, blue-eyed skinny woman in her 20's, (and married to a fantastic programmer.) Guys rule out automatically that I can build anything hands-on, based on my appearance only. It happens ALL THE TIME.
4) Some men feel threatened by my knowledge (I have fixed PCs for at least 5 years pro, many more before then) and then they try to throw cpu die sizes at me and fsb speeds or whatever, even though it is useless info. If I don't counter right away, they puff up. Girls, try buying a motherboard at a computer show.
5) I am told too many times how my predecessors were these male jerks who just showed off all the time and had a napoleon complex over their users. So now I have come to free them. :) And my users can ask me anything they want about how to use their computers. If I don't know an answer, it's OK. I will find it. And I WONT be embarrased that I don't know. And they won't be embarassed either. Ask all 2000+ newbie users I have served (I can't spell right now.)
LAY OFF THE PINK JOKES. PINK ISN'T THAT GREAT.
MOD YOUR FORUMS FROM THE FLAMERS. OVER-COMPETITION SCARES AWAY NEWBIES OF BOTH GENDERS.
STAY HIGHLY TECHNICAL. THE REST WILL WORK OUT.
0roo0roo - Thursday, September 4, 2008 - link
sounds like someone has a chip on their shoulder and falls back on stereotypes.Holly - Thursday, September 4, 2008 - link
I don't know your situation, but from my experiences, IT crowd around acts different way you interpret it.Mostly, IT people are all more or less geeks and they don't care about gender slightest bit. They don't try to spam you with informations they hope you don't know... They just acknowledge you as one of their own kind and speak with you using their language.
I can understand you consider informations like cpu die size or FSB speed useless. Back in the days I was newbie in IT, I didn't care about such informations as well... But inevitably it came with time, just because these data are pretty important even if they don't look like that.
No doubt you can find idiots just trying to blow you off (mostly because you are young and blonde), but I sincerely doubt it would be majority of the crowd.
Anyway keep up the good work you (prolly) do. World of IT isn't male restricted territory, it's just male-friendly territory.
kleinwl - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
If you really want to make your site a little more valuable, you could start guides about all the cool stuff that is possible due to technology and/or troubleshooting and/or upgrades.For example, I just started using Acronis True Image. I swapped out a 160GB HDD for a 500GB after making a new image. No reinstallation of programs, no driver conflicts, no hastle. 17 min and it's done. pop in the new drive and it's like my old computer (everything in the same place/same settings) except I have an additional 340GB of space.
Another example, recording music. I hooked up a turntable output to my X-Fi sound card and started recording my old records. Download a hiss/pop cleaner and washed the files. Now I have MP3s of all my vinyl records.
A third example. Want to transfer all those old VHS tapes (that no one watches) to DVD or even HDD copies? Hook up an ATI VIVO card to your pc, connect the VHS output to the VIVO input and use NERO to record. RIP it to DVD and you're done.
Fourth example. Host your own website. Use DynDNS to translate your dynamic IP address to a static. Register a domain and use APACHE to host the website... all in the comfort of your own home. Want a few nanny cams? Hook those up as well, and watch your nanny from your work computer.
So on and so forth. There is so many things that a PC can do, very few people using their full capability. Put out a few how to guides and this site will be even more interesting.
justniz - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
As the stereotype goes, women for whatever reason generally choose not to be interested in engineering as much as men are. Thats their choice so I dont see that anyone need to do anything to 'address' that.To argue from the opposite direction, I don't see any websites for interests that are usually considered to be primarily feminine attempting to change in order to attract more males.
I also think its patronising and doesn't help anyone to modify an already good website in order to to fit-in with whatever stereotypical idea of what all women are interested in actually is.
More pink cellphone reviews?...I think not...
Gannon - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
One part of the problem is that the language itself comes from a male perspective. It is also an issue as well as not having any female editors with insights into what women like/dont like, if I were you I would put out a job position for a female editor/reviewers, etc that understand women, not just the geeky ones but the illiterate ones as well.The subject itself (and even the aesthetics of the site, kind fo grey, dry and technical) though is part of the reason women avoid sites like anand. It screams technology is boring and a lot of women don't like it particularly unless it adds value (cell phone, myspace, facebook, etc)
They use tech as tools, it's not an interest in and of itself. Most people who come here have a natural interest in technology and keeping up to date for business or other reasons.
--
Another problem is the language that is used, sekaing in terms of what guys want to hear i.e. anand is all about the "dry" (to mayn women) details, the enthusiasm about hardware, engineering, etc.
But it doesn't cover things like:
-Usability
-Simplicity (does this make my life simpler, give me more time, or is it another time synch?)
-Aesthetics (is it sexy, will it go with xx, yy in my house, etc?)
-Music (yes women like music)
-Cooking /cleaning (yes women do a lot of cleaning, therefore, how can tech be used to help this problem!?)
-Time management (kids, school, etc)
-Reviewing software and websites related to women's interests (i.e. software with 3D models that allow you to view clothing/fashion, etc)
And that's just a start! If I were you I would be looking at successful sites that draw women in, one thing I've noticed about women sites is that the women themselves put 'themselves' out there, many of them don't hide behind screen names and put their videos online for all to see.
See http://www.hotforwords.com/">http://www.hotforwords.com/ for example
aguilpa1 - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
It works for guys and gals, put a few non geek looking dudes in the pages every once in a while with "bulges" in the right places and viola, women readers..., or viewers. Think SNL wild and crazy guys.kristof007 - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
I don't think it helps when you guys bring out a new firefox article, the little article picture is usually the "firefox girl".Jokes aside I agree with what Derek said about societal pressures and such.
Starglider - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
I started visiting this site regularly circa 2001 when the quality of Tom's Hardware took a nosedive into the toilet. A very similar thing seems to be happening here; founder no longer interested, other authors can't match him in either quality or output. It looks like the final stage - a flood of newbie-oriented popular hardware reviews with no technical detail - is imminent. Looks like I'll have to look for a serious hardware site again.Anyway, the article is the same faux feminist tabula rasa idiocy I've seen from numberous third-rate tech writers who've suddenly decided to take up a crusade for more women in IT. It's just particularly sad that this author has taken the time to write a cookie cutter rant instead of working on useful articles. Yes there are a few valid points in there, but they're the same things we've been hearing since at least the mid 90s, to little effect.
The reason that there are few female readers is simply that a lot of men find technology fascinating for its own sake, whereas few women do. Not 'all' and 'none', but definitely 'a lot' and 'few'. The reasons for this can be found in the field of evolutionary psychology and have been touched on by earlier posters. Most of the readers of this site don't really /need/ the technical detail in the articles, they just find it fascinating and probably have done since they were children. Trying to focus on 'what you can do with technology' is either condescending or irrelevant to your core readership. You can throw away everything that made AT worthwhile and try and become another mass-market consumer electronics site if you want, but odds are that you will fail and fail hard. Trying to straddle both sectors is even worse, because you will still alienate the existing readership while keeping enough heavy technical stuff to alienate casual users.
Holly - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
1. Women and men are NOT same. It all began at times when men started to hunt animals while women grown vegetables. Thanks to that, during loooong ages men developed better sense for orientation, while women improved their communicative abilities. This change is obvious on the shape of man and woman skull frontal part till nowadays (notice women forehead goes much more straight up from eye brows while men forehead bends backwards much faster). BTW specialists don't flame me, I am not a bio specialist, it's just what I remember from my school days. The similar way mens brain is generally better with logical stuff, while womens brain is much better with mechanical remembering of things (see yourself, how many male and female real-time tranlaters can you find? It's obviously job better suited for men - languages - mechanical remembering of zounds of words)2. Men play games. When we were little kids, we played Lego. When we grown up, we bought computers and started to play computer games. Then, we discovered our computers can be played with on hardware level as well. So, we've got our Lego for adults now. For Women, games are mostly waste of time, nothing more (don't ask me why, I have no idea).
3. So, now we have physical predispositions AND motivation for men to play with computers and similar stuff. There is just tiny bit of way to reach Anandtech, where we get info about our new dream Lego models.
All of this doesn't mean there can't be women with good dispositions to show up on AT, just in common, they have different interests. But after all, your idea about coming with some articles to make things better understandable for people ("How the CPU looks and works") is pretty good. But in the end, I don't think you'll manage to draw attention of females to AT if you stay "source for hardware analysis and news" because as simple as it is, 99% women don't care about hardware and imho never will... As much as I won't be interested about shops with skirts and women hygienic needs.
... my two cents
HGC - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
1.Less theoretical discussion of the ramifications of specs of upcoming components.2.More practical guides for buying and building systems and for solving basic computer problems.
3.Less use of undefined terms that only have meaning to engineers (or define them!).
4.More personal input from Anand and others on the team.
I love Anandtech and have been here from the first month. However, I have to say the site was more fun when Anand was posting pics of his high school buddies, andd when there were fewer abstruse theoretical articles and more practical guides.
ritchan - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
Assuming that males and females should have the same interests out of the box is just the same as assuming that your readers are genderless.I think Hannibal said this on arstechnica once - SGI didn't fall because they were specialized; they just weren't specialized enough.
pablo906 - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
I simply don't know a single female who enjoys doing the insane amount of research I do daily "for fun". If that makes sense. Learning everything about technology and getting deep into it is pretty much research. I research politics, computing, technology, gaming, and science ad nauseam daily. I watch or listen to tons of news from around the world. My wife thinks I'm the wierdest most boring human being on earth, but for some reason still lets me see her naked. So I can't complain.piroroadkill - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
I do pretty much the sameDerekWilson - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
i can totally identify with that ...what i would like to do, though, is create some content that makes learning about technology less like research and more applicable to people who aren't already just interested in learning things for the sake of learning them.
beyond that, which should be helpful to both men and women who stumble upon our site and aren't already into computer hardware and technology, i'd like to augment what i do with things that might also appeal more to women.
obviously this does us no good if we don't continue to appeal to people like you and me.
i just don't think it should be a bad thing to try and improve my writing style and content to be more appealing and accessible.
deruberhanyok - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
An Anandtech article states "that review is coming soon" or "the roundup is nearly complete." Several months to a year later none of those promised articles have materialized and no explanation is ever given - "that article was cancelled" can't take that long to type (if an explanation is given in the forums, it ought to be on the site proper as well). This has happened several times.But you guys have the time to write something about what you're doing to "increase female readership?"
deruberhanyok - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
My point, in case anyone misses it, is this:Keep doing what was done to make Anandtech a great tech website. The more you say "we have this great article that will be very informative and useful to readers" and don't ever post that article, the less interested ANYONE will be in reading AT.
DerekWilson - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
what articles have we mentioned that haven't come out yet -- let me know and i'll look into it. we do try and avoid promising things ... though sometimes i know i get excited about what i'm working on and want to share it.i do apologize if i've slipped an article i talked about and didn't update everyone ... i'll try and be better about that in the future. but definitely tell me what you are waiting for and i'll try and give you guys an update.
strikeback03 - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
There was the microATX roundup from hell that we got 1 or 2 segments of and no more. Someone (might have been you) did an article on upgrading a couple of home computers and said more was coming later, but I never saw that. There was the Ubuntu article from earlier this year that I have not seen.deruberhanyok - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
Derek,1) P45 roundup (last said to be mid-july)
2) The integrated video chipset roundup (780G, GF8200, etc, last said to be early July)
My source for the above two is a post from AT here:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid...">http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid...
3) 790GX review/roundup
The latest post in the comments to the preview says it is still coming, though that's the first word we've had of it since the article was posted nearly a month ago. Given the above two articles' limbo status and the P35 roundup / integrated video article from 2007 that never appeared I'm not holding my breath.
Laura Wilson - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
i'm a chick. *hoists vagina over head to prove it* and there are two obvious reasons for people to overlook my comment post: 1. i'm the wife of the blog poster, and 2. i've written a couple of articles for anandtech in the past. having gotten that out of the way...my mind is in shock from some of the responses this blog posting has received. you've got to be kidding me, some of you honestly think that "pinking" up the design of the site will draw in the ladies? i'd have to guess the people saying that haven't found that lucky someone to share their lives with yet. impressive, though, how you can reduce something you know nothing about to a color scheme problem. do YOU actually understand and read the articles here or did you bumble over from the forums in a haze of being lost in the internet, refusing to pull over and ask for directions??
whether or not female readers at anandtech are being represented, they are often being nudged out in the industry as a whole. when the latest nvidia card hits the shelves with a half-naked fairy plastered across the front, the sellers have already chosen their market. don't get me wrong, if it will make playing black and white a more seamless task i have nothing against cluttering up my motherboard with it. but that's not always going to be the case with pre-gender-designated technology or with other women.
in my personal experience, the flaw in the educational system was not the fault of the professors, but of the students. as i worked up the ranks of mechanical engineering, i found the average female presence per classroom went down as the course numbers went up, and the people who made my life the hardest were the many males in the classroom. several of them tried to make me feel ridiculous for gathering members to do group homework, others acted like a pair of boobs clearly made me a viewing object and not a colleague, one of them even tried to rape me! after giving up on the major altogether, i wandered over to the math department and found all of the chewed up, spat out women. and they were significantly more accepting of their classmates after the trauma of trying to make engineering work. some of you posting here sound so much like the guys from solids. it's kind of horrifying.
as for how the site can draw more women... i agree that foundation articles and female writers would be an excellent start. i appreciate people who took this posting seriously and for what it is: a query for reasonable suggestions. it's never a bad thing to include more readers, and the great difficulty will be not losing current loyal readers to the changes. but sadly, right now it seems the reason women don't feel so welcome on sites like this one is staring us in the face on this comment list.
TechFarmer - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
Quoting Derek Wilson: "I happen to know women who are much more intelligent than myself"I think that sentence proves it! :)
Sorry, I couldn't help myself. But if you're authoring an article for AnandTech, you should know better (unless you were trying to prove a point - then well done!) I think it should be ". . .women who are much more intelligent than I (am intelligent)."
"Allow myself to introduce. . . myself." -Austin Powers
persimmon - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
derek, dear,no doubt you are an intelligent man, educated and open-minded - i agree with some others here that you need not convince us.
i would agree with many of the comments that this not-enough-women concern is a non-issue. yes, this is a great opportunity to show us that you are aware of disparity.
but seconds to those who urged you to keep doing what you do best, focusing on hardware at (i'm not a very regular reader) whatever levels and breadth typify this site.
the web is a medium slightly different than print - those who want/need to read what you write will come, and those who find it lacking will leave. it is easy for new readers to find you, and easy for olds to leave. regardless of how you count them, i think it's important to ask yourself _why_ you are worried about your present and target demographics.
i am, in relation to my peers, a geeky girl. i'm the one they come to when they hear clicking, whirring noises from their pc (uh oh), or call up and say "something's wrong with my computer!!!" (great, but could you possibly be more specific?) i have arrived at AT pages often in my researching and troubleshooting efforts, but rarely check in as part of my regular reading. would i call personal computing technology a hobby? yes. i've just spent weeks agonizing over which CPU and heatsink to get, and i cared about every little hertz, watt, and decibel that i read in reviews. i ended up choosing a green solution that will work for me, though not without often saying to myself "you're not going to notice the difference in real life" over and over. but hey, some folks will. perhaps unlike some of the women that commenters have mentioned, i do care about the how and why and endless specifications that go on, to best make an informed decision that will serve me today and in the future. at least, i cared in the last three months. i've just finished my build, and as much as loved it, it's time to enjoy the fruits of my learning. (er.. right after some burn-in time, of course)
my geekiness comes and goes, as does the need for it to matter in my life. usually that need coincides with my upgrade cycles and/or hardware/software failures. i think this is a demographic you might need to consider - many people are not consistent and constant in their needs. when the need comes, i am glad that anandtech is the way it is - the last thing the web needs is more generalized sites chock full of brief and shallow information - generalized ostensibly to appeal to the widest possible audience.
in my geeky periods, i learn a lot about the current state of things, as well as spend some time reconstructing what was happening while i was away. i wholeheartedly support articles of historical/basics focus, as this definitely an area in which so much changes so quickly, including the basics. sound advice during my last upgrade cycle doesn't cut it anymore.
whether or not this need for both specific and general knowledg arises because i am male or female is, i believe, a moot point. it has nothing to do with my level of education or my interests or how i was socialized to view tech. i am both obsessed with level 2 cache and totally unconcerned with it, within the span of a week. i haven't read enough articles to know whether worries about playing tech advocate on a social level is a regular feature here on AT. if so, i will probably stumble upon you again when i'm looking for views on women and technology. it's an ongoing question with many answers.
but in the meantime, serve the needs of those readers you do have - male and female alike. by the miracle of the search engine, potential readers who also have a need for what you have to share will find their way to you, when do what you do best. if you start tailoring articles to appeal to women (can you possibly tailor to such a *varied* audience without reducing the focus of your work?), my guess is that women will not magically flock.
keep up the good work - see you at the next upgrade!
(i've not touched on what i think might account for underrepresentation of women in the field and the overgeneralization of women not liking or caring about tech - but i would like to share the last time that really got my goat... read on if i haven't bored you to tears yet.
years ago, my work pc sputtered and died during term papers season. a basic run-through revealing nothing obvious, i corralled up a friend with a car to take leo (the pc) to the local shop. the tech repeatedly spoke to my male friend instead of me, under the assumption that either it wasn't my computer, or that i wouldn't understand. ironically, my friend had no idea what the tech was telling him. anyway, i left leo overnight for the tech to diagnose and went back to work.
the next day, i got a call to say that the motherboard had gone south, would i approve a replacement, and the cpu fan's starting to go, would i approve that? sure, go ahead, make sure the board has the same features as the current one.
it did, almost. unfortunately he'd replaced the motherboard with an entry-level board which ruined my impending upgrade. to replace the board again would incur a restocking fee so i let it go. what bothered me was his attitude, as if he had already decided certain things about me because i was a girl, such as ... all i would care about the motherboard was that its colour matched my case. yup. he picked the only purple in-stock motherboard to go with my purple anodized lian li case. unfortunately, the case doesn't have a window so it hardly matters.
i want to share this because assumptions are so dangerous - to make assumptions about a person's attitude towards tech because of their gender is closing a mind much more than it is opening one. guy things and girl things are all just things in the end.)
nowayout99 - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
I think a lot of it simply boils down to left brain vs. right brain.The site is dominated by the proverbial tape measure. Stats and benchmarks and stats and stats and benchmarks and 1.21 gigawatt PSU roundup tests only matter so much.
We are now in a world where mid-range products are more than fast enough. So find out what's now relevant. Find other focuses. What new things can we DO with this performance surplus? How can we SAVE money, energy and time with our current systems? What about silencing our PCs? What about green products? How do we build a green PC?
You know the saying. It's not the size that counts. It's how you use it. We're there.
That being said, there are a lot of things that are just socially referred to as "guy things". Be it cars, gadgets, computers, A/V equipment, or whatever. This is a tech site with a geeky premise, and so geeks will visit. It's generally gender-neutral in that regard.
*But* I told the smartest woman I know (teaches physics at a university) about a new sound system I got for the TV room, all she could say was, "but how does it sound?" And that's as honest a question as can be. She understood me but that doesn't mean squat because systems are not all created equal... How does it sound?
It can be done without "alienating" the current audience.
Left brain, meet right brain.
rickl7069 - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
While it may not be politically correct to say it, there actually are differences in intelligence between men and women. On a sliding scale of intelligence, iq, men tend to clump toward one extreme or the other while women tend to be more evenly spread across the spectrum. So, while it is true that there tends to be more men that are genuises, it is also true that there more men that are completely stupid - kind of balances out.Hrel - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
First definetely do the introduction articles; I researched every term and every thing I came across about computers when I was starting high school; instead of doing homework, then later I started working in the field. I have the base, but it took a while. It would make it much easier for people to get interested in this if the base was written out in a few articles. Videos and pictures would definetely be good to include. Second, there have been studies showing that womens brains are less inclined to be able to understand hard logic and reasoning and there-fore it's harder for them to understand math and science; obviously there are exceptions. Just as it's harder for most male's to understand metaphore and indirect logic. If you understand that, and that women run on emotion not logic, it will help in writing articles they may be interested in. Pretty and shiny and socially elevating, more so than bang for buck. That last part is based on most girls I know, so maybe it's not true of most girls in general but I doubt it.androticus - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
The number of women (or any group) that reads this site is irrelevant. It is a tech site that appeals to techy people. It is just a fact that techy stuff appeals to more men than women, just as, say, Vogue and fashion magazines appeals to more women than men. Men and women probably have somewhat different brains on average, that leads to general average differences in interests. There is nothing wrong with differences in life -- it makes life more interesting. As long as people are respectful of the values and interests of each individual, then group averages are irrelevant. It is actually insulting to women to suggest that "something be done" to get them more interested in X. Such comments these days typically come either from me, or, excuse me, women who look like men. Who the hell appointed these social busybodies as spokesmen for all these allegedly underprivileged helpless women who seem to be so pathetic and clueless that they don't even know what they should be liking?DanD85 - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
You don't have to try that hard to show everyone how pro-women you are. Just let things flow naturally.I do not deny that there're women that are smart, nice and cool. But you have to admit the majority of women is not that much into geek's stuff like men do. Besides, Anandtech is not some newly-established tech news that you have to cry out loud for readers. Just monitor the hits and if it's OK then it's OK.
If you crave that much for female readers, I suggest you open a shout box labelled "women opinions only" or set up some pinky, girly,flashy button something that's read "Especially for you - girls". :-)
Minotaar - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
Why not invite an article from a guest writer on women's issues? From an exposure perspective Anandtech has a large readership, and would be a good venue for a guest piece on the topic of Women in Computing.Carmen van Kerckhove's work at www.racialicious.com is superb, and she has been featured as a contributor to such outlets as CNN and NPR, and keeps an excellent blog and podcast at www.addictedtorace.com. She blogs equally about both race and gender issues, and would be ideally suited to give some perspective on the problem of involving women in computing, and would probably provide excellent and insightful commentary on the topic to the readership at Anandtech. Considering her use of technology, she is undoubtedly quite computer savvy.
Another individual who is quite interested in involving women in computing is Lydia Kavraki, a professor of computer science at Rice University. Her research in robotics and bioinformatics is cutting edge, and has frequently involved the education and involvement of women in computer science and computer science research. She will also undoubtedly have excellent and insightful comments for the readership at Anandtech.
Anandtech has the unique advantage of being at the cutting edge of trends in much of consumer level computing hardware and software discussions, and is, of course, part of the reason why overclocking and other hardware mods are so mainstream today. Such a venue is an ideal location for input from someone like the individuals mentioned above.
fishbits - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
"Carmen van Kerckhove's work at www.racialicious.com is superb, and she has been featured as a contributor to such outlets as CNN and NPR, and keeps an excellent blog and podcast at www.addictedtorace.com."Don't know the woman or her work, but wow, that's a scary introduction.
"Why not invite an article from a guest writer on women's issues?"
Because this is a technology site? Arguments on what I like and how I like it to be presented aside, I want tech info and analysis. I could not care less about who wrote it, so long as it is accurate and of high quality. Veins in my forehead are pre-emptively throbbing at the thought of articles that go "As a woman, the clock frequency for this Kingston RAM..." or "My afro-phillipino heritage gives me special appreciation of the clock frequency for this Kingston RAM..."
At its mildest it is patronizing, and easily slips into offensive and bigoted to pick tech writers based upon the structure of their crotch and/or the RGB values of their skin color. "Now we have an article written by a (woman/member of a race) for (women/members of a race) so that they will be able to understand and appreciate it." Umm... no.
Give the crew here good enough material, I'm sure they'd be happy to consider publishing it. The moment that material wouldn't be good enough to be published, but is published only because behind the keyboard the author is [insert identity group(s) here], something's terribly wrong.
Seriously though, the editorial decisions that have driven the perceived readership demographic here aren't news. They've been covered again and again and again. Only thinking of it in terms of potential female readers is having an editor actually think about what's been dismissed for ages, and trying to brainstorm rationalizations for how this is a new concern.
"The proofreading is chronically shoddy, especially for a commercial site."
"The readers can get bent. This is a tech website!"
"Not everyone is in the market for a $1200 camera..."
"The readers can get bent. This is a tech website!"
"Not everyone will pay $300 more for RAM for 2 fps better in Crysis"
"The readers can get bent. This is a tech website!"
"Not everyone is concerned with vanity-silencing a PC tasked with pumping out audio to a beefy surround-sound system."
"The readers can get bent. This is a tech website!"
"OK, fine, I give up. Besides, I like some of the tech aspects too."
"Damn skippy! This is a tech website providing detailed info on technical specifics. We're not about to put up with the wants of people with broader, more casual tastes. I do wonder where the girls are though." [begin fumbling around for external causes to blame]
Minotaar - Thursday, September 4, 2008 - link
Fishbits said:"The moment that material wouldn't be good enough to be published, but is published only because behind the keyboard the author is [insert identity group(s) here], something's terribly wrong. "
You have misread my post and are beating an imaginary strawman. Go back under the bridge and ask someone else to answer your three questions. I was not suggesting that these individuals be asked to write a tech review. That is a product of your imagination. My suggestion was far more pragmatic and logical.
I was suggesting that a follow up piece to this one, regarding the problem of women in computing, be invited from an individual who has thought about gender and race issues. Considerable thought and research has been put into this social issue, and, following Anandtech's considerable history of being on the cutting edge, it is best that someone on the cutting edge of this field update us with the most recent thought on issues of gender in computing. We've already had one article about the topic - this one - why not have another from an expert?
The people complaining that "Anandtech is a tech website and I just want tech" are being exclusionist. These complainers are very much like the people who cry "BUT WHAT ABOUT THOSE PEOPLE WHO JUST WANT A PHONE?" every time a smartphone comes out. Go back to the stone age. Tech and society are totally intermingled, and to discuss only one and ignore the other is to become irrelevant. If you think that one piece on women in computing, after the years of tech pieces is somehow diluting your "pure tech" needs, you have a problem. Consider running cat 5e intravenously.
The majority of us understand that technology influences women and men, and that the lack of involvement of women at Anandtech may be an indicator for a wider set of gender issues surrounding technology. Those of us who desire a competitive workplace, so that our jobs are not shipped over seas, understand that solving engineering problems requires diversity of thought, and that diversity of thought begins with diversity of participation. Indications that we accidentally disenfranchise 51% of the human race is a problematic indicator. By arguing that you dont want to discuss gender issues at Anandtech, even briefly (I am in no way advocating that Anandtech have a major gender activism component) makes you, fishbits, part of the problem, and not part of the solution.
moozoo - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
On the web site:Change the blue header at the top to pink.
Add a pink tint to the grey.
Of course I can not say what that will do to your male stats.
:)
rvikul - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
What in the world is going on at AT?This website is about hardware and its for geeks and hardware enthusiasts. A geek can be a male, female, an alien from Mars or even someone from outside the United States (as strange as that might seem for AT, its website can be accessed from anywhere in the world with an internet connection). You are not making a Hollywood movie that needs to target a wide audience. If someone wants to ramp up on certain hardware basics, they can search online and find such information. Links to good sites would be a nice idea.
So please stop wasting time and go back to what you do best - hardware.
I second the suggestion where the reviews/articles are split into 2 - basic and advanced.
Aberforth - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
I'd say the editor is in love.DaveLessnau - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
If you want more readers (male, female, or other), how about using facts to generate your positions and then document those facts (with sources)? For instance, what facts do you have to back up the entire premise of this article (i.e., not enough female readers)?- First, how did you even measure that number? Avatars? Names? Gender in registration screens? All of those items are self-selecting and self-generated. There's no way you could even measure the gender of your actual viewership, let alone verify it if you could.
- Second, even if you had some number that said your viewership was x% female, how does that compare to your potential audience? How did you come up with something that would give you a rough size of that potential audience? How about using the percentage of Computer Science degrees as a reasonable stand-in for that number? Going to:
http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/nsf07307/pdf/tab34.p...">http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/nsf07307/pdf/tab34.p...
you can see that the percent of Computer Science Bachelor's degrees awarded to females has gone from 15% to 25% of the total from 1966 to 2004. Master's degrees went from 7% to 31%. Doctorates from 0% to 21%. So, roughly speaking, the best female readership you could reasonably hope for would be about 25% of the total. The thing is, it's also reasonable to use Electrical Engineering degrees as a reasonable stand in for Anandtech's potential readership. In that case, from:
http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/nsf07307/pdf/tab51.p...">http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/nsf07307/pdf/tab51.p...
your best possible female readership would only be about 14%.
- Third, what makes you think that (assumed) low female readership of Anandtech is some kind of metric that indicates a bad thing? What did you use to justify the leap from Anandtech's material to something valued by society at large? The stuff you talk about here is not just technical, it's not just regular computer user stuff, it's not just nerd/geek stuff, it's over-clocking, more memory, bigger power supply, more loud fans, cases with fins, nerd/geek, technical, computer, self-selecting stuff. In the grand scheme of things, someone could fire us (your entire readership) off towards another planet and, unless those remaining all died of a disease contracted from a dirty telephone handset, it would hardly make a difference to society at large.
- Fourth, you ask: "if it isn't a question of applicability or capability, then why don't more women read our articles?" Perhaps (again, assuming your unmeasured premise is true) the reason is (and this is one of my favorite sayings) just because men do something stupid, doesn't mean women should, too. IOW, maybe women are smart enough to not want to be geeks.
-Fifth, you say: "I'm going to go ahead and point a finger at our failing effort at education in this country and put a good amount of burden there." Where's any proof of anything in that statement? Take a look at the growth in percentages from those links, above. Did you do any kind of research before writing that kind of tripe?
- Sixth (oh, forget the ordinals). You say: "Fewer women than men are in technology." Maybe "computer technology." But, not all technology. If you look at:
http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/nsf07307/pdf/tab3.pd...">http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/nsf07307/pdf/tab3.pd...
you'll see that as of 2004, 50.4%/43.6%/37.4% of all the Bachelor's/Master's/Doctoral degrees in the sciences and engineering fields were awarded to women. There's more to technology than computers. And, maybe, just maybe, women might just prefer other areas of technology.
- Then, you say: "Our educational system does not do a good job at all of offering different teaching styles to people who learn in different ways. For whatever reason, math and sciences tend to be taught in ways that are more accessible to men than women." Where's your proof of any of this? There are thousands of higher education institutions around the world. Surely, unless competition is dead, some of those would have come up with some way to better teach over half the population and thus increase their profitability. Of course, once again, maybe women just prefer to learn different subjects. Remember, the random placement of two statistics (well, one statistic and one faulty premise) does not imply causation.
- Finally, I'm going to group all the rest of your article into "we need to do such and such and so and so." You don't NEED to do anything. You might WANT to do something. But, this is the web. Anyone can write anything they want. If there's a market somewhere, someone will fill it. Perhaps you want more readership so you can make more money from your advertisements. Perhaps you think women are some kind of low-hanging fruit that will allow this. Fine. It's your web-site and you can do whatever you want. But, don't delude yourself (or us) that you NEED to do something or the world will end.
0roo0roo - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
bingo, women actually are over represented in areas such as the medical field these days. medical schools are majority women, nursing is obviously dominated by females. and neither is being outsourced!! so obviously the idea of trying to force fit everyone into preconceived ideas of what things are good or where they should be is a load of nonsense. the whole why women aren't in technology question is just a load of bull when they don't look at where women ARE going.tyanlion - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
Dude first u have literally no idea on the gender composition of the people who read this .Second as one guy said here this was primarly a gaming site in the beginning. By specifically targeting a more female audience u might alientate your viewership base who come here to read the intelligent articles u write about hardware, don't make the mistake of thinking of making more articles to cater to a larger audience because there are downsides to it to like wasting time on creating those articles and not covering your normal stuff.
Third, times are changing girls are getting into gaming, so i suspect in 5-10 years time female viewership will naturally increase as well. don't be impatient.
Fourth, don't create problems when there isn't, the articles here are genearlly gender neutral. you have never wrote anything with for just the male geek. there is no reason why female viewers shouldn't come here. maybe its not anything wrong with anandtech but currently society doesn't have the demographic that supports what u want.(basically don't think there is a problem when there is none) If a person has no interest in computing stuff u will never be able to pull them in no matter how well your articles are.
What u guys could do however is beef up some of your existing articles. I don't see enough linux and mac articles which i personally want to see more of .
And u guys could have something like what tom's hardware guide has the cpu and harddisk charts those are something that are lacking in this site. If u want to attract more people just go and do some historical articles on how some computing technologies evolved so it would be better. btw u guys don't even do vidz like tom's or extremetech another area to improve on(btw if u look at the internet the trend is increasing, you guys need to upgrade). articles are also very poorly integrated with one another. Basically what i am saying is before u venture into new territory make sure u are ready , there are still a ton of things u could do here to improve readership without speicifcally going for the female audience.
Rav3n - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
How many female writers write for AT? How much direct female influence do you have in directing the future of the publication (wives and girl friends are not direct)?Why bend and distort your core competency to attract a different reader, when you can bring on a few talented writers (or editors!) who are going to bring with them different perspective? Branch out, don't cave in.
Now you're supposed to ask, "Well, where does one find female writers who are talented and want to write for AT?" I'm glad you asked. Ads (not on your site, they won't attract women), writing competitions, organizations that encourage girl friends of nerds to do X are a good start. Maybe start a column? A small series?
cparka23 - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
I think it's great that you at least pay attention to the reader demographics to broaden your readership base. Best way to do that is to ask, which you have done; I applaud.That being said, I agree with some of the comments already posted and add my own twist. The question is not "What should I do to expand the numbers among the female audience?" The reason, as well-stated by others, is to avoid overreaching the bounds of what Anandtech has become to its loyal readers. Blog posts about building Anand's home theater are fine as long as they remain as blogs w/ a personal quality to them, but regular coverage of some topics is sure to drive away some of your current readers. Consumer electronics (i.e. DSLRs) are great as long as the focus remains technical. Once you overreach into style over substance, I'll drop you faster than I dropped CNET. DON'T ASPIRE TO BE ANOTHER CNET.
So then I suppose the question becomes "Are we doing something to ostracize women?" Without sounding too preachy, today's social climate simply shapes a greater proportion of males to be more tech-oriented. Personally, I believe the inroads made by today's women will have a terrific impact on the next generation of women, but it'll be another 10+ years before you can state that there is no gender bias in IT, computing, gaming, or engineering -- let alone all of them. That day will come, though.
In the meantime, I wish you'd go back to the roots of this site -- reviews, display tests, guides -- and maybe start a series covering the nuts and bolts basics of overclock hardware tuning.
ggordonliddy - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
Life is like a box of chocolates...(No, that does not make sense.)
Finally - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
It does!One (very) common marketing technique goes like this:
If you have a boring standard normal product and want to do a "special edition" only for women, the - I wish I was kidding - official marketing slogan is: "Shrink it and pink it"
Just look around the capitalistic world. It's true.
0roo0roo - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
face it, knowing about the fastest gpu and what all the new marketing terms and features are is not important to most peoples lives. guys do it because it fuels an obsession with technological power, and lets them game. people are free to do what they want, if they dont enjoy obsessing over games or computer hardware so be it. its just a hobby. This stuff is mostly technical minutia. dont make it more than it is. always the questions with why women aren't in IT more, or why they dont play as many games(ignore fake statistics that include solitaire). always the assumption that the sexes have the same interests and that women dont share mens means theres something wrong. men don't share many female interests as well.trying to make something universal that appeals to a niche audience will only dillute your mission and ruin the content for your core audience and won't appeal to the female audience anyways. you will just be shooting yourself in the foot for nothing.
as you've said, you are all men on staff. you've gravitated to this by your own accord. no one forced you into this field by dumbing it down and force feeding it to you like it was some horrible medicine that was "good for you". you liked it, and ran with it. thats all there is to it.
oh no...knowing what penyrn is or how X gpu is better than Y is not going to make most lives better. there is a illusion of over importance going on in this article. investment for retirement advice would be universal and important to life. health care, schools etc. gpu's are not anywhere in the same class of importance. it is a hobby.
read the blank slate by steven pinker.
people are not the same.
Verve - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
As a female reader, what is the reason for wanting more female readers? I'm one of the geekiest female going and yes, I do spend time reading the gossip columns as well as keep tabs on the tech industry. I do not work in a tech-related field. This is just one of my personal interests.IMHO, the short answer on why no women readers: because we do other things. Notice that I spend time reading gossip columns. I also have a life. And, to be brutally honest, your articles are very technical and can be a bit long-winded. Are they good? It depends on who you want as your audience. I look at your site when I need to look for new things for gaming computers. Am I interested in clock multipliers, etc.? Not really. I just need your summary of why that part (motherboard, RAM, graphics card, CPU etc.) is the best there is on the market at the moment.
However, from what I understand, your audience are people who really want to know the nitty-gritty details of how you put each piece of equipment through its paces, then you should continue to do what you are doing.
I'm not going to touch the socialization theories that are being floated -- if that was true, then why am I even reading this site?
fishbits - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
"I'm going to go ahead and point a finger at our failing effort at education in this country and put a good amount of burden there." You're joking, right? What country are you talking about where the females aren't just as welcome to take any class they desire? I'd assumed an American perspective, but perhaps you're writing on behalf of Yemen?As RMSe17 said, why worry about it? While I'm sure there are gearhead sites that would welcome more readers, I don't think they lose sleep at night that the ratio of people reading about do-it-yourself timing chain replacement is mostly men.
Ditch the over-analysis and handwringing. Women and men are, and hopefully always will be, different. Doesn't mean they can't share the same interests, but the rate at which they do doesn't have to be the same. Meanwhile, I might enjoy picking out clothing or furnishings for their aesthetics, without getting deep into it as women are more apt to be.
But overanalysis is going to be the shortcoming, and and honestly, you're the last person here for this particular task. Male gamer techie nerds have begged you, Derek, to take a chill pill on describing the intricacies of the smelting process for making the metal for making the freaking mounting bracket of a new video card. Yet, undaunted, you go on for page after page of such trivia knowing full well most of your readers are more intested in price and performance.
You've knowingly thrown out suggestions for how to improve articles and reviews when it conflicts with a chance to "show you that I know stuff!!!!1" To cater to the audience you're asking about, you'd have to go even further in a direction you've been unwilling to move an inch on for years. How realistic is that?
Women (generalizing here) love tech. To USE. To be a black box to do what they want to do. To communicate, to create, etc. They don't love spending gobs of time digging into WHY it works for their own amusement, or to pass the time of day. Same as they love cars as transportation, not for engineering principles and maintainence hobbies.
If, for instance, you were willing to write a video card review and a SEPERATE article on the depths of the architecture, acknowledging that some people might not want to read blathering for four pages about every nook of the pixel pipeline, you'd be able to show the ability to connnect with your readers wants, instead of forcing them to wade through what you want to get to their interests. There's a reason girls don't typically flock to the "Excuse me, technically, the peanut is a legume" guy in school. If you're not happy with who the site appeals to, the change will have to go deeper than coughing up some "pink" primers.
v12v12 - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
WOW! A HOMERUN - GRANDSLAM OUT OF THE PARK!... When I 1st read your rant about this dude, I was like "man wtf this guy needs to chill and stay on topic...” then it HIT ME like my aforementioned opening line: This guy is writing to impress himself... he likes to show his "intelligence," through his articles, THEN probably rereads them, nodding at how intricate his articles are — Lol a true narcissist indeed.Off Topic: Yes I do agree that a lot of the articles are waaay too in depth in analysis and specificity. Take the Nehalem article for example, very nice to know how L2 and L3 hierarchical-architecture ascend, tidbits about netburst and Quick path (etc...) work, but — eventually I found myself losing interest and wondering rather impatiently "WTF are the SPECS and performance numbers and comparisons going to come into light?!" Yes I like knowing those very in depth intricacies, BUT not when they add more filler to the meat of the argument. CUT the fat out and stick with the lean meat. Fat should be sparingly placed on the side IMO.
But alas here we are: another reader complaining about the direction of a site, and the editors viewing the readers as uninformed, naive or plain, dullard sheep that cannot truly appreciate the effort and preciseness of their "work." Blah blah go toot your own horns at home.
WE make up the revenue you get from advertising by OUR viewer ship. If you want to paint a brilliant masterpiece of an article, great do it on YOUR OWN TIME and not at our reading expense? What's so hard about understanding that? You work for US, not the other way around. If WE leave... you cease to have funding... WE, on the other hand, can find someone else who WILL pander/cater to what WE care about. Does my adding to this rant make any real diff? Probably not... BUT it's just a friendly reminder / critical critique of the direction you ought to be taking. Not a shove, but a nudge... please take heed and don't drown from basking in your own reflection...
saiku - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
Well said. All the women I know (many in tech) really don't care about HOW / WHY something works. Anandtech is for hardware - breadth AND depth. The good articles (buyers' guides/ monitor roundups etc.) are languishing while we see stuff like the bargain bin games roundup today. Anandtech 2008 feels like its going the way of CNN Headline News. I really don't want that to happen to my favorite hardware site.And please please stop the barrage of PSU reviews.
The0ne - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
Personally, I think it's the presentation of the article. Take for example game magazines. Most have really way-out there article reviews and reader responses. Sometimes I even wonder why they reviewed or responded to readers email/post mail/blog/etc the way they did. Certainly at some point you grow out of the smart-ass, elitist and know-it-all comments and try to treat your customers as a person...neither male nor female.As for Anandtech itself, I think it's fine although it could be more balance for both sexes. I have friends and co-worker Engineers whom are female but don't necessary get excited when a new gadget comes out. So the comments "Oh, it's badass because I'm getting 50Mhz more out of my CPU in OC," or "Yes, the new driver increase my FPS by 10 in this game..." is not going to hit home anywhere for females. Personally, I would think older females would find it childish and unprofessional and move on to more "mature" sites. And again, it's not that they might feel the same way but the presentation is something to avoid, much like forums are to me.
roastmules - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
She likes to spend her time watching "Golden Girls" and looking at MySpace and PerezHilton.com along with food channel.She knows that the ATI Radeon 3850 has 800 processors in it (I've told her), but doesn't care.
If you had celebrity gossip, she'd check the page 5x per day.
RMSe17 - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
Why chase after some target audience or cater to one group or another? I say, do what you do best, write technical articles, do lots of reviews. Do what you have done for all these years. There are male and female readers who like what you have been doing. If you try to change something, some will like you for that more, about the same number will like you less. It's just like in behavior: be who you are, don't try to attract anyone.Crucial - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
I'm sorry but you are soon about to lose a male reader. There seems to be a severe lack of quality hardware reviews lately. It feels like you are moving in a direction I just don't appreciate and it will end up causing me to look elsewhere. I've had enough million watt PSU reviews to last a lifetime. I understand you have to justify buying the fancy tester but it gets a little old. Most of us will never buy the psu's you review anyway. 95% of people have no need for them.Maybe PC hardware is just getting to a point where even the slow stuff is more than enough to do the job and things are getting stagnant. I don't know. I do know that bargain bin games and games some random blogger are playing aren't really on my top picks of articles to read.
I can tell you that if you start focusing on women friendly stuff like pink cases and flower vase mods for your pc I'm outta here for good.
Dead - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
I couldn't agree more. This used to be my first choice for high quality reviews but there is less and less of that with each passing day. There are far fewer guides and comparisons, which are useful, and way to many single product articles that smell of payola.I recently put together a new system and anandtech.com was of little use to me. To wit:
* The last budget buyers guide was November 8, 2007!
* The last mid-range buyers guide was October 15, 2007!
* The last high-end buyers guide was May 29, 2007!
Such stale articles might be acceptable on a site covering buggy whips, anvils and hammers but they are a pathetic jokes given your implied subject matter. Similarly, it is beyond belief that your last Linux article was July 1, 2005!
Any more de-balling of this site and I will erase all traces of it from my memory and bookmarks.
strikeback03 - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
I find the guides of little use as they usually end up just rehashing the content of earlier tests, most of which I have read anyway. I'm sure they are useful though for those who simply want to find what to buy, not why.I also wonder what happened to the month of Ubuntu article. Was supposedly started with 7.10, and might cover the upgrade to 8.04, here we will have 8.10 releasing within 2 months.
piroroadkill - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
I honestly agree with this, which is sad because holy shit when Anandtech does a good article, it's usually in depth and an essential read; I just variety as of late is waning - okay, so I'm male but I honestly don't think it matters what gender reads the site - as long as any sexism is kept to a minimum, then there's no actual barrier to anyone reading the site - whether they're interested in the content is up to them or not, but it's essentially gender neutral.Concentrate on more content, and more varied content, not worrying whether it should be made more friendly - although I do agree a few primers may be helpful to not alienate people - the readerbase of the front page, as far as I can tell, is pretty tech savvy and is happy to be challenged by technicial content, say inside CPU architecture articles.
Well, keep up the good work and make sure not to lose your way
jlb4nc - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
First, absolutely create as many technical primers as you can. Make quick overviews for casual reference, and in depth examinations for more detail. Second, don't think about male vs female tech geeks, that's assumed, think about NORMAL, i.e. AVERAGE people. In general, women are process oriented, and men are goal oriented. Also, again in general, women don't have ego investment involved with what they know (knowledge is generally a goal) they have ego investment in thier ability to learn (the process). Focus more on the ubiquity of technology and why it's valuable to learn about it, not the specifications of the latest and greatest widgit.Pottervilla - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
Quote: "There is no fundamental reason women shouldn't be interested in our articles as both women and men are interested in: getting the most value out of their purchases, living a full and fulfilled life by taking advantage of technology, and understanding why they should care about technology and the issues surrounding it in today's world."First off, and no offense, I don't really read AnandTech to help me live a more fulfilled life. True, I often rely on your site for hardware recommendations, etc., but mostly I read because I'm a geek, and I find the latest developments in the speed of $500 memory (way out of my budget) interesting. Face it: a good portion of stuff you review will never be purchased by a huge portion of your readership. Stuff like exotic cases, $3000 gaming notebooks, and just about anything next gen. As of late, you have been getting more into the consumer electronics market (like cameras), which I assume would be of more interest to ladies than stuff like CPU scheduling, which I find fascinating.
Quote: "I am looking into trying to write a series of introductions to topics like 3D graphics, CPU architecture, etc. so that we have references we can point people back to and to provide more people with easy access to the information that will help keep their eyes from glazing over when they read our latest GPU architecture article."
I would love that--and I think a lot of others would too. Give it your best.
Quote: " Like it or not, some places in our country still push men and women in to different roles"
Kind of like procreation? :) (I'm joking)
Quote: "It all comes down to our last point: presentation."
So you give a good presentation, circumnavigate social issues, and provide a good knowledge base--but you still have to get them here. I was introduced to your site by a friend (male) when I was looking to build my first computer--because I was interested in the kind of things that you talk about. I don't know any females that share that kind of interest. They are content to holler "tech support" and let me tell them what ever they need to know. My humble opinion.
Go ahead and try to get a bigger variety of readers, but be careful that you don't alienate your core readership. I would be disappointed if you lower your quality to appeal (less) to more people.
Jonathan
P.S. your comment task bar seems to be broken. the quote box pops up, but doesn't add the text.
dreddly - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
I seem to remember an offensive use of an asian women on the title for 'unveiling the secrets' of Intel a while back.Don't start whining about a lack of female readership when some of your blog posters are openly hostile to different opinions (*cough* masher *cough*). Such an environment is not conducive to outside or dissenting opinions(heaven forbid anyone be opposed to nuclear power here)
If, you create a space that engages on a range of tech issues, rather than ones that focus on forms of male fantasy and don't foster a competitive environment of centrist views, you may engage a wider readership.
Alexvrb - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
I don't understand how gender is really relevant. This site has a particular focus. Few women read this site because it has nothing that interests them. If you write articles that more women will read, you'll be changing the focus of those articles and the purpose of this site. It will then be less interesting and and useful to your existing base."heaven forbid anyone be opposed to nuclear power here"
Being opposed to it is fine. But don't expect everyone to line up behind you, and don't pull out bogus arguments about nuclear power without expecting to get called on it. Masher isn't always right, but at least his arguments are logical and he's usually got a good grip on the facts.
dreddly - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
This is exactly the problem, that the rating and reply system at anandtech reinforces centric and defensive thinking and discussion.I am talking about attitude and demeanor on this site, and the general hostility towards alternative viewpoints. The problem with a tech site is that it mixes science with business, neither of which are renowned for their inclusiveness and tolerance for differing (albeit perhaps sometimes illogical and emotive) viewpoints.
This smug satisfaction is pervasive, and masher is one who drives that type of interaction. While it may be great trolling bait, it does little to encourage dialogue and just results in rating wars on comments.
"But don't expect everyone to line up behind you"
The lack of diversity of viewpoints was my issue, and you have demonstrated the very problem I am getting at.
Ryanman - Sunday, September 7, 2008 - link
Actually, I've usually found that both sides are usually well represented here.I don't understand how one person replying to you is indicative of the entire AT forumbase disagreeing with you and hating you. Yes, when someone goes into a pro-apple rant I'm more than willing to pull out my flame thrower and have a feeling of "smug satisfaction." But maybe you just don't notice those who agree with you, and don't realize that on the internet NOTHING is "personal"
terpstarnix - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
I'm all for the primers. I think having them available would mean worlds to people who want to understand and get the most out of your articles. Of course you can search for that info, but its best if you have the same authors writing the primer so you have the same terms and writing style to explain it. I would do this in a series of video's rather than text. Pointing out what the architectural charts/pics mean piece by piece would help us understand how to read the same diagrams in the other articles.Guuts - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
One simple thing you could add is a GLOSSARY!I'm pretty technology-literate, but even I sometimes stumble on a term or acronym here on Anandtech and have to resort to Google/Wikipedia for a definition.
I can't imagine any of the women I know trying to get through an article or news story here and not being utterly frustrated with all the "tech jargon". And it's become sort of a bad habit of tech writers not to at least write out the first use of a given acronym in an article.
Oh, and a bit off-topic, but can we get the RTPE (RealTime Pricing Engine) either fixed (again), or just removed if it's going to continue to be broken for months on end?
monoape - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
Anadtech takes its news feed from Daily Tech which runs a constant propaganda campaign of distortion and misinformation to deny the reality anthropogenic climate change. See the output of Michael Asher (http://www.dailytech.com/blogs/~masher)">http://www.dailytech.com/blogs/~masher) for an example of the one-sided, scientifically illiterate output that Daily Tech considers 'journalism'.Maybe if Anandtech gained some journalistic integrity, the entire readership would increase, along with females? Just a thought.
mmatis - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
Anadtech takes its news feed from Daily Tech which runs a constant propaganda campaign of distortion and misinformation to support the religion of Anthropogenic Climate Change. See the output of Jason Mick (http://www.dailytech.com/blogs/~jasonmick)">http://www.dailytech.com/blogs/~jasonmick) for an example of the one-sided, scientifically illiterate wack jobs that Daily Tech considers 'journalism'.Maybe if Anandtech gained some journalistic integrity, the entire readership would increase, along with females? Just a thought.
Sorry, Jason! But you REALLY need to get a better class of acolyte!
monoape - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
URL broken by parsing. Should be:http://www.dailytech.com/blogs/~masher">http://www.dailytech.com/blogs/~masher
mmatis - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
By the way, you left out:"It's all Bush's fault!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
racolvin - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
I think you meant "deluded" :)strikeback03 - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
It seems that every piece of hardware reviewed, in the end, comes back to gaming. As that is where the site originated, not necessarily a bad thing, but can turn off those who have no interest in gaming beyond Solitaire. Even devices which make no pretension of competing with modern mid-to-high end hardware (such as the original Eee) are in some ways held up as deficient ("Picture state of the art from 1999"). Perhaps for targeting a different dynamic you need an author or editor who is less into the pure technical aspects and more into the end uses of the technology.Having previously helped friends and relatives (both male and female) shop for computers and cameras, they have generally not been interested in how an item does what it does, but the end result, i.e. "I want a camera that can take good pictures in clubs" or "I want a laptop that I can do work for online courses for the next 4 years". Frankly, they often are not looking to educate themselves, but simply to be told what the best option for them is.
nosfe - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
expecting people to know computers like us enthusiasts is like asking people to know how to repair a car in order to get a drivers license. We may not like it that some of our friends/relatives are computer illiterate but don't believe that they don't think the same way about us and the field that they excel at. C'est la viesintaxera - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
You said "That last bit is key: we need to reach out and show people how much better their lives can be when computers and technology are properly used in order to get them interested in better understanding the current and future capabilities of hardware and technology."So take a look around at what women like, and show them how it can be better with your help, your knowledge, which is in your articles. For example my fiance loves facebook, myspace, instant messaging, text messaging, just plain communicating in so many ways. If you showed her a wonderful new technology that helped her do it better, faster, easier, and maybe even prettier (please don't flame me) she would probably love it.
Frallan - Friday, September 5, 2008 - link
Well i think there is a difference here regarding the way i and my pals and our female friends and companion think about technology. Me and my friends can sit here and read in order to be able to build a computer with a whole lot of Whomp in it because we want to use word on a computer with a whole lot of Whomp. (refer to this as the "my e-penis is bigger then yours"-argument)Our female companions dont cara at all about the Whomp factor they want word to work correctly.
Where often we guys get bogged down in why things work faster on A then on B and how we can make A actually beat B in some tests the girs say "give me either as long as it suits my needs".
Example - I just went out and bought my fiancee (yes im a geek and Im engaged [no she isn't sane]) a MP4-player. I go out on the net and compare codecs, formats, communication interfaces, memory space and finally decides to buy a 32GB Creative Zen well knowing that i wil have to fiddle with the formats to get the fims playing. I was drooling over the tech spec. of this thing and all she said was "WOW now I have something to watch when on all those booring flights!" She was really happy but not a bit interested in why it worked just that she would be entertained during long and booring flights.
When it comes to things like RAID setups GPUs or Memory freqenzies (sic) offcource there are girls/women who are interested for the same reason as i am. But mostly they will only get interested if it improves their lifes in one way or another. Also if it comes to the point where they realize that a gadget WILL improve their life why in the world would they spend 200+ hours reading up on the basics needed to understand what the whitepapers say when they can ask me, go to the gym for a work out and get a nice spreadsheet with pros and cons presented when they get back???
Oh well my 2 cents is to say that there is no diffrence in capability between sexes, races (is it PC to call it so I am not in the know pls adit if U want/need to) or social belongings its just that were just not interested in the same things and this geek-interest has a skewed populance-base.
Lostclusters - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
review shoesAmberClad - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
By "readers", do you mean readers of the AT main page articles? In this case, how you know if a particular reader is female or male, or are you making assumptions.Or do you mean AT forum members? I'm a female, there are various other female members, and several of the forum mods are female. And btw, it doesn't help when I get mistakenly referred to as a male not infrequently, despite a clearly female avatar and screenname.
Perhaps guys are pre-inclined to assume that only males are interested in PC hardware?
Finally - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
This >here< is the very definition of nerd porn.Asking why women don't visit hardware sites is like paying women for posing with guns... something just feels creepy...
emboss - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
quote: "And btw, it doesn't help when I get mistakenly referred to as a male not infrequently, despite a clearly female avatar and screenname."This remides me of the sig line "This is the internet: where the men are men, the women are men, and the children are FBI agents."
As far as the topic of the article, it's a far more widespread "problem" (for lack of a better word) than just tech sites. Physics, engineering, compsci, and mathematics departments all over the world see the same skewed statistics. It's not uncommon to have as few as 10% female staff/students, and sometimes even lower.
It not a fundamental "wiring" issue, since it's a much more even split in other technical/analytical areas such as chemistry or biology. Is more just a self-perpetuating societal bias that decrees that physics etc are "mens jobs". Most technical subjects require some degree of knowledge before they become interesting or even comprehensible - imagine someone reading one of your graphics cards articles without an understanding of what RAM is. So the societal pressure pushing females away from computer-related things means that many simply don't have the foundation needed to find things like the self-resetting domino logic in the Northwood ALU fascinating.
OK, bad example, but you get the idea.
As far as the solution goes, there's no magic bullet. There's little that you as a single site can do to increase the base of people with sufficient knowledge. Sure, you can publish some introductory articles, but that's only going to help people who are coming to the site already. One thing you could do would be to chat with the "women in science" or similar groups at your local university. They have been looking at this issue for years, have a much better understanding of the issues involved, and can probably give you some good pointers.
code65536 - Saturday, September 6, 2008 - link
> It not a fundamental "wiring" issue, since it's a much more> even split in other technical/analytical areas such as
> chemistry or biology.
Actually, that's the perfect illustration that there *IS* a wiring issue, because it illustrates the gradient that we see as we move from a "softer" science to a more abstract, "harder" sciences. This so-called "wiring" has been discussed in the psychological and neuroscience communities for a long time, and it's a fairly well-established thing.
Biology is not chemistry and it's certainly not physics. While this is often expressed in the form of bio-vs-chem-vs-physics jokes, physics *IS* more abstract and "pure" (in terms of everything being tidily enclosed in a purely mathematical world) than chemistry, which, in turn, is much more abstract than biology. In biology, you spend half your time memorizing various details like what this gene does or what that body part is. In physics (especially the higher-level theoretical physics), you spend almost all of your time with various equations. The ratio gets progressively more unbalanced as you move from bio (where in many places, females are the majority) to chemistry (where males are often the majority, but usually only by slim margins), to physics (at least in the "hard" theoretical physics, males are strongly dominant; in the "softer" physics like biophysics, geophysics, etc., the ratios resemble those of chemistry), to mathematics and computer science, where the percentage of women is very often less than 5%.
mmatis - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
Re: This remides me of the sig line "This is the internet: where the men are men, the women are men, and the children are FBI agents."I second that, except for the fact it's really "FBI agents or TV producers."
afkrotch - Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - link
How about this one?Girl = guy in real life
marone - Tuesday, September 2, 2008 - link
becaz men are geeks, women are from venus